Tom Leader专访｜所有的设计都需要是真实并且原创的！

Whenever you hear people say “world-class” you should be worried – what about this place right here?

所以每当听到“世界级”这种描述的时候，我们应该警惕：它是否有针对自己所处的场地？

—Tom Leader

访谈 Interviewer｜栗茜 Sherry Li, 周啸 Xiao Zhou

文案/校对 Author/Proofreader ｜李绍禹 Shaoyu Li, 李鑫然 Sara Li

摄影/摄像 Video｜孙超 Chao Sun 编辑 Editor｜Winnie

People

人物素描

汤姆·里德

Tom Leader

TLS景观建筑创始人，主创设计师

Founder and principal of TLS Landscape Architecture

（以下采访中Tom Leader均以“T”代替）

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人物专访

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建道记者团：栗茜，周啸，丁艺，戴小超，杨淏玥，黄伊伟

█ 恭喜TLS获得了2019 ASLA城规分析的荣誉奖，是否可以给大家简单介绍一下获奖作品 +StL: Growing an Urban Mosaic in St. Louis的灵感与设计理念？

Congratulations on winning the 2019 ASLA Honor Award for Analysis and Planning. Could you briefly explain the motivations and major design concepts behind the winning project +StL: Growing an Urban Mosaic in St. Louis?

T：这是一个非常“野心勃勃”的竞赛。项目坐落于美国密苏里州的圣路易斯，可以理解为是一个贯通华盛顿大学与位于湖畔的圣路易斯拱门的城市绿色通道。因为整个区域被轻轨联通，我们运用了一个缓和并模糊南北圣路易斯种族与贫富差距的策略，并利用不同的设计方法重新融合种族差距，编织一个新的环境化、社会化的城市肌理，同时激发该片区的经济发展。由此，我们将设计继续向南北延伸，从三个层面与城市结合，即经济资产、生态循环和公平扩展。

尽管这是一个荣誉奖，我们仍然要感谢在这个大尺度项目背后所有人的付出。这种大型的城市改造需要各方面的配合和努力，不仅仅是设计师们，也包含了当地社区，城市领导等等大量机构的合作及努力。

+StL: Growing an Urban Mosaic in St. Louis © TLS

It's a very ambitious competition. The project sites in St Louis, MO, USA. It could have been interpreted in a limited way about an urban greenway next to a metro link which connects Washington University to the Gateway Arch beside the riverfront. As the whole district can be accessed by light rail, we look for strategies that begin to blur the lines between north and south St. Louis which is currently divided by race and economic status. Overcoming social and physical barriers, the plan utilizes various methods to knit together the urban fabric both environmentally, economically and socially while stimulating new businesses and enterprises in the area. We extend it further north and south to embrace the city as a whole through a layered strategy of three components: Economic Assets, Ecological Loops, and Equitable Extensions.

Although it is an Honor Award, we need to acknowledge the huge undertaking behind all these projects. A project where such a major transformation is envisioned has business involving the community, the city leaders and a lot of groundswells of support.

Localization

and Internationalization

本土化与国际化

█ 请问TLS是出于什么契机成立了上海工作室？

When did you start the Shanghai office？

T：我是在设计苏州狮山公园和大运河的项目时决定成立一个中国的分公司，因为从那时起我们开始接触各种文化类型的项目。我们希望借助在上海成立工作室，可以更深入地了解中国当地的文化和历史，以及中国惯有的表现方式和表达手法，比如我们会在视频中会精心插入传统音乐。

Lion Mountain Park Suzhou, China © TLS

I decided to found an office in China when we were working on the project of the Lion Mountain Park and Suzhou Grand Canal Waterfront. We started with the cultural projects of Lion Mountain Park in China. We began to tap into basic elements of culture and traditional methods to representing like traditionally composed music for videos.

█ 这些中国的项目是如何体现对于本土文化的理解？

Is there anything local elements involved and practiced in the Chinese projects？

T：随着时间的推移，我们对中国文化的理解，以及在中国文化背景下我们的理念与设计也在逐步深入。在雄安新区的规划项目中，设计师陈巍一路带领团队以一种中国的方式思考，他们从传统的24节气入手，让每个节气代表景观规划上的一种新的可能性。24节气可以追溯至农耕时代，是农民劳作与自然相辅相成的产物。所以我们想把这些古老的概念带回21世纪这个信息时代，与其让它随着时间推移消失，不如让这个理念重新回归雄安的现代生活之中。从白洋淀河畔荷花，与漂浮芦苇荡开启了记忆，并通过一系列的景观设计策略，来唤醒追古情怀。

这是一个充分尊重古老历史记忆与生态环境，并且要兼顾精神需求与城市体系经济框架相平衡的项目，最终会提升场地的生态环境。历史与生态的项目，我们在完善一系列城市体系的同时也在改善场地现有的生态。我们把它整合成了一个融合财政框架，水文系统，与文化内涵的城市海绵。同时这也是一个动态发展的项目，通过白洋淀片区水的传递，激活整个绿色生态系统并生成一个城市规模的“透析机器”。

Suzhou Grand Canal Waterfront Suzhou, China © TLS

As time goes on, there is a deepening in our practices, our methods and our understanding of the Chinese culture. In the Xiong’an New Area project, Wei Chen in our office really led our thinking where we represented everything through the 24 solar terms each symbolizing a natural change in the heavens and the earth. The terms can be traced back until the agrarian ages but are still relevant now as we wanted to bring back the harmony between man and nature to this electronic age. We didn’t want this poetic understanding of time and seasonal changes to disappear; rather, we transposed the concept into the modern life of Xiong’an which would develop along the shores of Baiyangdian, bringing back the memory of the city through details such as the lotus, the reeds and the villages which had grown there for hundreds of years.

It is about respecting the ancient site and its ecology while carrying out a mental and fiscal framework that tries to improve the current biological conditions of the site. We transformed Xiong’an into a sponge city centered around complex and ambitious fiscal frameworks, hydro logics and cultural meanings. It is also about movement: moving water from Baiyangdian through the same green ecological system to create a massive “dialysis machine”.

█ 您是如何平衡文化的本土化（比如说雄安新区规划中的24节气）与现代城市景观的国际化？

How do you balance the localization of a culture, for example, and 24 solar terms in Xiong’an New Area, and the modernization of an urban landscape on an international scale?

T：在设计过程中，我一直在寻找一种可以与人联接的方式，但对我来说最重要的是讲一个真实有理的故事。我不喜欢那种生硬加在设计上的理念，它就像盖了一层布一样非常肤浅。另外，太快地推进方案也会带来很严重的问题，这也是为什么我们觉得多数的当代城市发展得“千城一面”，因为这些设计都是在套用迎合潮流的方案而缺乏独立性与深度。在雄安新区的规划方案里，我们提出海绵城市如何能落实并保护已有淀口，因此在这期间，我们团队为了研究当地居民与水的故事，特意延缓了设计进度。我们这样做的原因在于，整体方案的大方向在缺少细致研究此水利系统的情况下是不成立的，所以我们放慢了设计的脚步，并提问：我们想做的到底是什么？是在已有地形地貌下建立一个水的生态系统？还是抵制过多的人工加建？

与此同时，我也被“什么是真实”这个问题困扰着。究竟什么才能真正地代表雄安独特的环境？是否会是最前沿科技的应用？或者是某些让人虚拟链接的经济产业？通过这一系列问题，我们意识到最重要的还是人与自然，与社区的关系，由此出发，我们一定能创造出更好的社会体系。如果人们不再居住于农田而是高楼公寓，如果人们不再借助双腿而是车轮来进行社会活动与交往，比如他们五分钟的车程才能到小公园里跳个广场舞，这实在太不值了。所以我们所有的设计都在尝试联接自然生态和人类社区，也希望我们的设计可以在心理及物理环境上汇聚人们、重联人们。

SOM + TLS Landscape Architecture to design the first phase of Xiong'an New Area, China's “model city of the future” © TLS&SOM

We look for ways to tell a story that connects with people. But what’s more important is to tell stories which make it real and fundamental. I have this pet peeve with projects which simply attach concepts or ideas superficially like putting on a cover. Approaching terms too fast is a big issue of designing, which is why nowadays we recognize every city as the same: they are not being thought about in individualistic ways which take deeper learning. For example, in Xiong’an, we thought about sponge city and how it could preserve the bay; but we need to slow down especially during the early stages and digging further into the stories of people and this water. The big idea would be invalid without digging deeper into a large-scale hydrological system. We try to slow down our brains and ask questions: is it more about creating a system of water and ecology based on the actual rainfall on the site? Maybe we don't have to bring so much artificiality to it.

I was also struggling with what would be really there. What will also speak of the exceptional nature of Xiong-an? Will it be about having the latest technological equipment? Or the amazing economic programs and ways of digital connections？But we felt the most important advancement concerns how are people living. There must be a better social fabric we can create. If people who may have lived on a farm far away are now living in a tower, relying on their cars to get around instead of walking and meeting friends, they must drive to a park five minutes away to do plaza dancing. Everything we are doing tries to reverse this divorce from land and community - in modern terms in where both the mental fabric and physical fabric bring people together and reconnect them.

Approach and Representation

设计方法与表达

█ 从苏州狮山公园起，TLS工作室开创并引领了一种中国风渲染表达的潮流。最初想法来源于哪里？未来会有其他表达形式吗？

Since Suzhou Lion Mountain Park, your office has led a trend in renderings utilizing a Chinese genre painting style. What initiated the approach?

T：我很喜欢探索那些更新颖、极致并且小众的表达方式。虽然表达文化意向的方式有很多种，但我们一直坚信表现方式应该从项目主旨和场所的历史文化入手。比如说，中国和美国对于自然的看法自古以来是不同的：中国的园林（garden）人工建造的蜿蜒路径与自然山水相辅相成，从某种程度上反映了社会文化生活和自然意趣；而在美国，我们鲜有园林，更多则是指用来堆积杂物的后院（yard）。（笑）“园林是微缩的宇宙，卷轴是缩影的社会。”苏州狮山公园致力于通过石刻的“十八景”来渲染出一种诗意的人文自然关系，所以我们想通过一种崭新的方式把这种诗情画意表达出来。当苏航渲染出这些中国风的画面时，我们都激动不已。

我觉得下一步可能是脱离静止的画面，去思考动态的表达方式。在狮山公园的视频里，我开始探索一种可以把设计与人物动线结合的方式，并得到了一系列在山水画卷中栩栩如生的小人。长远来看，我觉得视频会慢慢成为一个主流的表达方式。

Lion Mountain Park, Suzhou © TLS

We like to explore ways of representing through different approaches that are more nuanced than the normal and are not as widespread. There are so many ways of representing cultural ideas and we believe the means of representation should also emerge out of the place itself and out of what we are trying to express behind the major concepts of the projects. For example, comprehension and expectations for nature are never the same between the Chinese and the Americans. In China, there are gardens, especially those found in Yuanlin, surrounded by winding paths as scrolls weaving in between social life and nature; in America, we don’t have gardens, we have “yards” where you put your stuff. (laugh) “Gardens mimics the universe and scrolls portrays the society.” The Suzhou Lion Mountain Park aims to embrace both nature and human through a social and poetic program inspired by the “18 Scenes” poetry carved into the steep stones along the trail. Hence, we wanted to transform the poetic language in a new expression embracing the local culture. And we were so excited when Hang Su did the render.

I think that the next step for representation should be getting away from the static. We need to think about motion. In the video and render created for the Lion Mountain Park project, I began to investigate ways of incorporating the design with the motion of people within the landscape. Moving forward, videos and films could be a major work medium.

█ 在做设计之前，您坚持花很长时间来调研。在实践过程中，您是如何平衡设计与研究的？

You always conduct a great amount of research before starting a design. How do you balance the research and work?

T：秘诀是你需要思考的够快！因为甲方对研究可没什么耐心！（笑）在我看来，一个项目起始的2-3周是我们将当地人文地理条件与设计相链接的最好机会，所以调研是必不可少的，因为我们总是需要在已有场地，文化，历史及自然的基础上对其进行加工升华。最终的目标是设计可以融合人文和自然。我在深圳做评审时曾看过一些关于水上学校的项目，那些设计没有灵魂，没有反映或结合场地的特征，以至于它们可以被放置在任何地方。所以每当听到“世界级”这种描述的时候，我们应该警惕：它是否有针对自己所处的场地？

Tom Leader working in the office © TLS

You need to think fast: clients are not super patient with research (laugh) Yes, the first weeks up to three weeks is your chance to come up with a connection to the content of the culture and the physical site. I think that research is a stage one cannot escape. It is the fundamental principle of a project because we are always reacting to a site, to a culture, to an ecological system, and to history. The goal is to merge both the cultural and the physical together. I’ve seen great projects while I was a jury in Shenzhen where the design involves a school on water. But some projects could be placed anywhere; it is not communicating with the site nor retains the soul of the culture. Whenever you hear people say “world-class” you should be worried – what about this place right here?

A Future Periscope

未来的展望

█ 您觉得新生代的年轻设计师需要拥有哪些技能？能否根据自己的经验给大家一点建议？

What skills do you think young architects and designers should obtain? Would you give any suggestions based on your own experience?

T：首先，我觉得最基础的画图能力是必须的。虽然我们步入了电子化时代，设计师普遍掌握Rhino，CAD 和 Lumion，但我们对这些工具还是需要保持谨慎，因为它们往往会带给我们无止尽的、没有意义的重复性工作。

我上学的时候，所有的图纸都是手绘的，同时我们也必须学习基础构成和比例关系，并以此来辨别我们设计作品的好坏。而当我们开始使用电脑时，这些抽象的意义却容易消失。比如，一张渲染完美地表现了水面的反射与光的明暗关系，但是设计师并不理解这张图“好看”背后的原因：尺度，比例，材料及空间都有它们特定的意义。所以我特别担心，软件工具应是帮助学习设计，辅助判断的，而不是替代设计过程本身。

最重要的是，不论是学生还是从业者都应该避免抄袭。设计一个作品并不是照搬网上的漂亮图片，而是要因地制宜。我们需要讲述那些我们真正感兴趣的、以独特方式定义大众生活的故事。你的作品集不是用来简单地展示自己的成果，而是一道照亮你前行的光，它反映出的应该是我们对自己、对行业以及社会的思考。我永远在寻找这两样事物：一、这个设计师是否向我们讲述了一个有意思的，关于他/她自己的故事；二、作品的所有权是个人还是团体，你在整个设计中出了几分力。因为所有的设计要真实且原创。

Basic skills like designing and drawings are essentials. Although designers are required to master Rhino, AutoCAD and Lumion nowadays, we should be careful about these tools as they might lead to endless illustrations that may not be meaningful to a project and confuse the focus.

When I was in school, we are trained to do all plans and sections by hand, learning the basic and proportional relationships to judge the works we are creating. These abstract terms are often lost when translating into digital software. What often happens is, we render an image that represents beautiful water reflections and lighting effects before we may have thought through the scale and the proportions of material and space. I am really worried that we use digital tools to study and confirm the design, not replace it.

Moreover, I think in our student and professional culture we should avoid copying other people. Work should not be generated from what is beautiful on a website nor what has been successful in some other context. We need to put up our own stories of what we are interested in and all the things that would define each person in a distinct way. A student portfolio is not simply displaying all works one has done but a self-directing path, an individual story that reflects a unique understanding of oneself and of the field. What I’m always looking for are two things - One, whether the person has interesting stories to express and communicate; and the other, the credits to all the works, whether they are individual or group work and how much he or she contributed to the entire design process. All need to be genuine and original.

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