祖克曼演奏布鲁赫《g小调小提琴协奏曲》 
“音乐有她自己的语言，而最终，殊途同归，音乐的语言必须被传递给听众。音乐厅只是媒介之一，还有许多其他的媒体——CD唱片，荧幕，iPhone，电脑. . . 通过自选的媒体，人们理应能随时随地的触及音乐，这意味着我们必须找出供给的方式！”——祖克曼
A Conversation With Violinst Pinchas Zukerman
对话祖克曼（四）
1、谷宇飞专访祖克曼；2、对话祖克曼（1）丨小提琴家为何要学中提琴？3、对话祖克曼（2）丨为何演奏家要学习指挥？以及多大开始学习指挥？4、对话祖克曼（3）丨“伟大的指挥家看上去话不多，糟糕的指挥家却总是喋喋不休！”
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: These are all some of the technical aspects – and musical aspects – of conducting. Here's another consideration: I don't play the piano. Oh, I studied a little in order to learn harmony, of course; everyone does. However, I don't play it now. The piano, in some ways, has a greater depth than any of the orchestral instruments, but I think you'll agree that the orchestra has a far more complex depth of sound than any instrument, including the piano. This concept carries over splendidly to learning more about the music itself. I'll give you some examples.
祖克曼：这些都是指挥艺术在技术上和音乐上的一些侧面。这里我还有一个想法: 我不会弹钢琴。呃自然，为了学习和声我也学过一点；每个人都得学一点。然而，我现在不会去弹钢琴。钢琴，在某种程度上，相较于任何乐队乐器都更有深度，但我相信你一定也会认同这一点，即交响乐队在复杂程度与音响深度上远胜任何乐器，自然也包括钢琴在内。在了解音乐本身方面，这个概念助益良多。我会给你一些例子。
I like to ask orchestral musicians – who may come in long after the first measure of a composition – "Who starts the piece?" This is a profound concept, because they need to understand who is playing with them at every point along the way. Yes, we may all know we're playing Beethoven's Concerto in D Major for Violin, but orchestral musicians must be aware, right from the onset, that the first four notes are played by the timpani. Then I'll ask them, "Who starts the slow movement?" and so on. That's music education! And when I teach, I always stress this idea, so that students can gain a greater understanding of the harmony and the colors that harmony provides. This is vital information to impart to the musicians, because when they know it, the public will intuitively begin to understand somewhat more clearly that a performance is good. 
我喜欢问乐团的乐手们——他们的声部或许要在作品开始很久以后才会加入进来——“谁开始了这部作品？”这是一个很深刻的问题，因为他们需要全程了解自己是在与谁合奏。确实，大家都清楚我们是在演奏贝多芬《D大调小提琴协奏曲》，但是作为乐团的乐手，从一开始就应该是注意到，最开始的四个音符是由定音鼓敲出的。然后我总会问他们，“是谁开始了慢乐章？”如此类推。这正是音乐教育！当我施教时，我总是强调这个想法，因而学生可以更深刻的理解和声以及和声的色彩。把这些重要的讯息传递给乐手，因为当他们了解时，听众直觉上会更清晰的理解，这场演出优秀与否。
THIRSTY: The audience?
THIRSTY: 听众？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: O.K., they may not be able to tell whether it's great, but at least they'll begin to develop a better feeling for whether it's good. 
祖克曼：好吧，他们或许无力辨别演出是否伟大，但至少他们对音乐好坏与否的判断力将得以发展。
THIRSTY: Just by the sound?
THIRSTY: 仅凭声音？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: It's interesting that you ask. Today, we seem to be more of a screen-oriented society, and we tend to look more than we listen. However, I never heard anyone say, "I saw Rubinstein play." They'll tell me, "I heard Rubinstein play." Similarly, I didn't see Heifetz play; I heard him. 
祖克曼：你问的很有趣。今天，我们的社会看起来更像是一个屏幕导向的社会，我们更倾向于用眼看而非用耳听。然而，我从来没有听人说过，“我看了鲁宾斯坦的演奏。”他们会这样和我说，“我聆听了鲁宾斯坦的演奏。”类似的，我并没有看过海菲兹的演奏；但是我听过。
THIRSTY: And with the orchestra?
THIRSTY: 也适用于交响乐队？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Exactly! We're not looking at a conductor; we're listening to him -- or at least, we should be! And this segues to another point.
祖克曼：自然！我们不是观看一个指挥表演，而是聆听他的演奏——或者说，至少我们应该如此！而这将引出另一个点。
I have a very difficult time with some of the younger musicians today. They seem to make it a point to bounce around the stage, almost as though they're dancing. I feel like saying, "Hello? If you want to do ballet, go to ballet school!" 
如今，我和一些年轻乐手在相处之中会碰到一些困难。他们看上去努力想在舞台上蹦来跳去，那看着就像他们在跳舞一样。我想这么说，“你好，如果你想跳芭蕾舞，那就去一间舞蹈学校吧！”
THIRSTY: In other words, they're emphasizing the visual at the expense of the aural.
THIRSTY: 换言之，他们强调视觉而忽视听觉。
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Indeed, and that's not good. The mannerisms that are attached to a performance are often distressing. Now, I'm not going to tell you Sarasate didn't have mannerisms. Of course he did, but one might at least argue that they provided the physical mechanisms for him to execute the phrase the way he wanted to. It was not for television, or some other photogenic effect. However, these days when I can actually see someone sit down at the piano or violin and simply move properly, it's a pleasure. 
祖克曼：确实如此，而这是不好的。表演性过盛的台风是令人头大的。现在，我要告诉你的不是萨拉萨蒂没有台风。他当然有，但至少，可以争论的是有人为他设计了一套肢体动作，而这套动作可以让他随心所欲的演奏乐句。这既不是为了上电视，也不是为了上镜效果。不过，如今当我能看到有人端坐在钢琴前或是妥帖的抚住他的小提琴然后简单正常的演奏，这实在是一种享受。
THIRSTY: Then again, when I was coming up, there was Glenn Gould.
THIRSTY: 还有，在我成长起来的年代，有格伦·古尔德。
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Gould may have been an eccentric, but you must remember that those same mannerisms were truly his way of manifesting the sounds he wanted from the instrument. 
祖克曼：古尔德或许是一个异类，但你必须记住那些举止确实是他表达音乐的方式，他希望借此从乐器中获得他所希望的声音。
THIRSTY: I agree; he was absolutely sincere.
THIRSTY: 我赞同；他是绝对真诚的。
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: On the other hand, look at the way some of these pianists play today. How can they even see the keyboard with all that body movement? And we observe this also with the fiddlers. Some orchestral musicians feel obliged to move away, out of fear they'll get hit!
祖克曼：但是，看看今天的这些钢琴家们是怎么演奏的。他们在那么夸张的肢体动作过后是怎么能看得清键盘的？我们在小提琴演奏家身上也会看到类似的情况。乐队的一些乐手甚至不得不离他们远远的，因为担心自己被他们夸张的动作伤到。
THIRSTY: Well, they certainly won't get hazardous duty pay if they get whacked by a colleague's bow!
THIRSTY: 好吧，他们如果被同事的琴弓砸中显然是拿不到危险任务出勤费的！
（译注: hazardous duty pay，美国军队针对危险任务特有的补偿机制）
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: And that brings us back to some of the conductors. They'll do a simple cutoff as though they're about to take off for Mars! That cut in a Beethoven symphony is a simple gesture, not a signal that the world is coming to an end. I'm sure orchestral musicians will stop playing the note without all that drama from the podium. 
祖克曼：这又把话题引回了一些指挥身上。他们会把一个简单的收束拍打的就和自己要一飞冲天、直升火星一样！那个收束拍在贝多芬的交响曲中不过是一个简单的指挥动作，而不是全曲终结的信号。我相信即便没有指挥台上戏精，乐手们也会停止演奏那个音的。
The larger question is whether they think such flamboyance will get them more applause, and also why so many people misread these simple directions today. Let us hope we can return to some sort of sanity in the near future, because as you are surely aware, we're having some serious problems within the music industry these days. 
更大的问题是，为什么他们会认为这种浮夸的动作能给自己带来更多的叫好，不仅如此，为什么今天会有这么多人误读这些简单的指示。让我们展望在不久的将来我们能在一定程度回归理智，因为正如你清晰认识到的那样，今天在我们的音乐产业里存在着一些极为严重的问题。
THIRSTY: That does lead us to a different topic, doesn't it? Financial problems are considerable at the present time.
THIRSTY: 那确实把我们导向了另一个话题，不是吗？（音乐产业内的）财务问题在如今确实十分严重。
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Yes, and that's true not just in the United States, but globally. It begins to seem as though we may no longer be able to sustain some of the great institutions that people have come to love and adore for so many years. 
祖克曼：确实，而且这不仅仅是在美国，这是一个全球问题。苗头始于那些大型音乐场所（剧院，音乐厅等），那些人们爱慕崇拜了这么多年的圣殿，如今似乎我们已经无力再保障它们的运营了。
THIRSTY: Last summer the Metropolitan Opera narrowly averted a formal lockout.
THIRSTY: 今年夏天，大都会歌剧院险些停摆。
（译注: 此处指2014年7月，大都会歌剧院业务亏损、劳务纷争事件）
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Well, we can't keep hemorrhaging $1 million per day. Something has to give . . . someone . . . a lot of people. We can't continue this way. It's not just the money; it's how we spend it, and I think we have a plethora of rubbish these days that we simply don't need. 
祖克曼：嗯，我们不能继续每天亏损一百万刀。有的事必须放. . . 有的人. . . 很多人。我们不能继续走老路。这不仅仅是钱的问题；这也是我们如何花钱的问题，我认为今天我们有太多根本不需要的垃圾。
THIRSTY: But where is the solution?
THIRSTY: 但是解决的办法何在呢？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: We do have hope, and that arises from technology. The "information age" has given us the ability to do a "360" every day. We can go all the way around the world and return from the starting point almost instantly. 
祖克曼：我们确实还有希望，希望来自于科技的进步。“信息时代”让我们有能力每天“360”度环游世界，你可以去往世界的任一角落然后瞬间返回你的起点。
THIRSTY: But how can that work to the advantage of classical music?
THIRSTY: 但是我们该如何将这些优势带入古典音乐呢？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: By using it properly! I think people like the late Steve Jobs and other people with great vision in technology have given us the way – perhaps I should say, "ways"; certainly more than one way! – to prosper within the profession we have chosen. We can go to many more people per night, per performance, per hour than was ever possible before.
祖克曼：通过正确的运用它！我认为科技领域里，那些具备远见卓识的人，比如史蒂芬·乔布斯已经为我们铺好了路——或许我该说，铺下了“条条大路”；显然不止一条路！——这终将使我们所选择的专业变得车水马龙。每个夜晚，每场演出，每个小时我们都可以和更多的人交流这在以前是绝不可能发生的。
THIRSTY: You mean the Internet? 
THIRSTY: 你指互联网吗？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Exactly! We can play in Shanghai from my house. I can also play in Beijing and Tokyo. Unfortunately, as many people in the IT world will tell you, the slowest computer in the world is the human brain. That's true, though once the information is inside the human brain, no one can take it away. The challenge, then, is to put the right information in there, but that is not what is happening right now. However, let me give you an alternative. 
祖克曼：正是！我身在家中却可以把音乐带去上海。我也可以在北京和东京“演奏”。不幸的是，正如许多IT行业的人会告诉你的那样，世界上最慢的电脑便是人类的大脑。事实如此，尽管信息一旦被我们存入大脑，就无人可以将其攫取。然而（对于人脑而言）挑战是，只向我们的大脑里存入正确的讯息，但这恰恰不是当下正在发生的。不过，让我给你提供一个选项。
We shall shortly be performing at the Verbier Festival [in Switzerland – ed.], which hosts 40-50,000 people. Over the course of the entire festival, they expect up to 1.6 million this year. Now, look at Medici TV. They have around 1,400 archival films of all kinds – everyone. Over the years, they've improved, and as soon as they take the next step, things will get better.
不久我们就要去韦尔比耶音乐节（在瑞士）演奏，音乐节的场地可以容纳四到五万人。在整个音乐节期间，他们预计今年最终的人流量会达到160万人次。现在，再让我们看看美第奇电视台。他们现在归档的，有大约一千四百部各类古典音乐视频。历年来，他们都在进步，只要他们继续前进，事情将会变好。
Verbier Festival
Let's think about the Metropolitan Opera. They have always done a wonderful job, but it's only one way. People in the audience just sit there as receivers, while the performers sing for them. It's the same in Philadelphia, Tel Aviv . . . wherever. I'd like to see a way to get people involved, and I think technology offers many possibilities.
让我们想想看大都会歌剧院。他们的演出一直很棒，但这未免太过单一。观众席上的听众们仅仅是坐在那儿，作为音乐的接收者，而演员们也只是为他们演唱。在别的城市也是如此费城，特拉维夫市……哪儿都一样。我想看到某种让人们参与其中的方式，在我看来科技向我们提供了许多可能性。
Yes, people can listen, but they can also enjoy simulcasts in "real time," and then after the concert join in discussions. Perhaps performers can also explain how they executed a given phrase, and with some of the "apps" we have these days, people can have an enhanced experience, in which they'll feel they can actually participate in the ways they receive the "information."
确实，人们可以照样聆听，但他们也能“实时”的享受联播节目，在音乐会结束以后他们还可以参与讨论。也许演出者还可以向听众们解释他/她为什么在某个乐句做出了这样的处理，借助如今的那些“APP”，听众们可以获得优化的体验，他们接受信息的方式可以让听众真切的感受到自己参与其中。
Obviously, this is just the simplistic beginning of an idea, but I think you can see the long-range potential. Ultimately, with greater "involvement," we'll be able to carry this through until we achieve some sort of monetary stability for the non-profits. 
显然的，这只是这个创意的起点，还很简单但是我相信你能看见他未来的可能性。最终，伴随更多的“参与，”我们将贯彻这个创意直至实现（非营利性组织意义上的）财务稳定。
Back in 1995, I was in Beijing with my very dear colleague, the late Daniel Ng. He was Chairman of McDonald's in Asia and one of the most brilliant people I ever knew. While there, I had my first exposure to video teleconferencing. I was able to reconnect with my students back at Manhattan, and I thought, "Wow! That's it!" You see, we could do everything – the written text, the sound, and the visual picture all at once. 
时间回溯到1995年，我和我亲爱的同事伍日照（Daniel Ng）在北京。他是当时麦当劳亚洲地区的董事长同时也是我所认识的人中最杰出的一个。在那时，我第一次接触了视频电话会议。我可以和我在曼哈顿的学生重新联系，我想，“哇！就是这个！”你看，我们可以做任何事——书写文字，音频，还有视频图像都可以。
Please remember that at that time, China was a very "closed" society, and there were plenty of people in the "official garb" hovering around us. At one point I said, "Talk to them, will you?" and Daniel initially declined, adding that he didn't want them to know he spoke Mandarin. At any rate, he finally mustered up the courage to ask them about the estimated population for Canton Province, which we now call Guangdong. They told him around 50 million.
请记得在那时，中国还是一个非常“封闭”的社会，那会儿还有许多穿着工装的人徘徊在我们周围。一次，我说，“和他们说话，你愿意吗？”而伍最先拒绝了，他说他不想让这些人知道他会说普通话。总而言之，最后他还是鼓起勇气问了这些人Canton省大致的人口总数，现在我们把这个省叫做广东。他们告诉他大约有五千万。
THIRSTY: Given the immense growth in that area, it's probably well over 100 million today!
THIRSTY: 考虑到那个地区飞速的发展，现在可能有超过一亿人了！
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Now take a moment to crunch some numbers. Suppose we could sell 50 million people a musical service for one dollar. For one dollar a year, 365 days, 24/7, they could get classes, performances of all sorts, and commentary! Well, Ng looked at me and said, "You're crazy!" However, look what Medici TV is beginning to offer less than twenty years later!
祖克曼：现在让我们花点时间来处理一些数字。假设我们可以用一美元的价格向5000万人出售音乐服务。一美元一年，365天，每时每刻，他们可以上课，看各种各样的表演，还有配有解说！好吧，伍看着我说：“你疯了！”然而，看看美第奇电视台这不到二十年时间里所提供的服务！
THIRSTY: They are certainly committed to classical music. Moreover, they boast that they have "175,000 members from 182 countries who connect regularly to [their] website, smartphones, tablets and connected TV applications."
THIRSTY: 他们显然对古典音乐是投入的。不止如此，他们还自豪的说他们有“来自182个国家的175000个会员，会员们都会定期访问美第奇电视的网站，智能手机、平板还有入网电视客户端。”
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Anyone can see where this idea is going. Suppose an orchestra gets 50,000 – not 50 million – people listening to a concert on a Thursday night for one dollar, and suppose they do this four times a month: $200,000. 
祖克曼：每个人都能想通这个点子是怎样带来收益的。假设一支交响乐队在周四晚上有一场票价一刀的音乐会，将有五万而不是五千万人来听，再假设这样的音乐会他们每个月办四次那么就有二十万的进账。
Would we have 50,000 sales next week if we tried to arrange that type of Internet outreach? No, but we might very well get 10,000, which certainly isn't bad. By the time we get it up to 40,000 per week, we're at $2 million per year! Moreover, we would raise the listeners to a higher level, because they could repeat the experience. They could always download it a second time or a third. And who knows? There might be other ways to slice the apple. Perhaps for a quarter one can get just the concerto, or for a dime, just the first movement, and so on. 
如果我们试着在互联网上组织一场这样的音乐会，下周我们还能卖得出五万张门票吗？不，但我们很有可能卖出一万张，实际上并不算糟。一段时间以后，当我们每周能卖出四万张网络票的时候，每年我们就能净入两百万刀！不止如此，我们还可以提升听众的层次和品味，因为他们可以反复聆听。他们可以一次又一次的下载我们的在线音乐会。谁又会知道呢？还有其他的路数来分蛋糕。也许花二十五美分只能得到一部协奏曲，一角钱，就只有第一乐章，如此类推。
Why aren't we doing things like this? Why isn't the classical music industry using the Internet far more aggressively? As I said, I'm afraid it's because the brain is basically very slow. I've dwelled on this problem for twenty years, and I see things just beginning to move forward. However, it's not an "either/or," or "one or the other." We must think in terms of the complete picture. 
我们为什么不这么操作呢？为什么古典音乐行业不更有侵略性的进入网络市场呢？如我所说，恐怕是因为人脑本质上转的太慢了。我在二十年前就开始为此深思而如今方见它略有起色。然而，这并非“二者择一”的关系。我们必须在更大的图景上进行思考。
Steve Jobs was so clever in his vision, and he was able to provide us – the novices – with the idea that we are fundamentally "smart." This is exactly what we need to tell the audience. They must be "smart," because they're listening to some amazing music! If we can provide them with this information, they will come back again, because people want to be assured that they're "smart," rather than "stupid." Unfortunately, right now we're just giving people very limited information, and this probably misleads them. All too often, people feel – deep down, within themselves – "I don't understand this stuff!" Thus, we need to explain, to describe it a little. Of course, talking too much about the music will prove counterproductive. 
乔布斯十分聪明，他可以想到为我们——这些（使用他“智能电子产品”的）新手——提供一个点子，即本质上我们是聪慧的（“智能”的）。这也正是我们必须要告诉听众们的。他们必须是“聪慧的”，因为他们正聆听着这些美妙的音乐！如果我们能向他们传递这种信息，他们将成为回头客，因为人们都希望自己被承认是“聪慧的”，而非“蠢笨的。”不幸的是，如今我们给予听众的信息太少了，而这也许会误导他们。时常发生的是，人们感觉——这种感觉他们深藏心底——“我根本听不懂这些东西！”因此，我们必须去做一些解释，做一些描述。当然，对于音乐说太多也会适得其反。
Music provides its own language, and ultimately, the musical language must be conveyed to the audience in different ways. The concert hall is one medium, but there are so many others – CDs, the screen, the iPhone, the computer . . . People should be free to access music through their own choice of medium, and that means that we must figure out how to provide it! 
音乐有她自己的语言，而最终，殊途同归，音乐的语言必须被传递给听众。音乐厅只是媒介之一，还有许多其他的媒体——CD唱片，荧幕，iPhone，电脑. . . 通过自选的媒体，人们理应能随时随地的触及音乐，这意味着我们必须找出供给的方式！
At present, however, we have another problem; labor costs may not allow us to proceed. The types of costs that seem to arise right now for live streaming are absolutely ludicrous. That mentality has to change, because if it does not, we're going to end up in the desert! Yes, we have so many wonderful edifices, orchestras, and players, but where are they going to go? I hope people can begin to see the bigger picture, and to move more quickly. I've sat in on any number of "committee meetings," and most of the time I want to scream! 
然而，现在我们还会碰到一个问题；人力成本不允许我们这么做。如今，直播流媒体的各类成本完全是荒谬的。这种（短视的）心态必须得到改变，因为如果不变，我们将自掘坟墓！是的，我们有一流的建筑（音乐厅），乐团和乐手，但是他们接下来会去往何处？我希望人们开始着眼更大的图景，而后快速的行动起来。我参加了数不清的“委员会议”，但大多数时候我只想尖叫！
It is interesting that outside of the United States – for example, in Hungary or Bulgaria – the industry is already making so much progress. When I perform there in a hall, I am absolutely thrilled if they decide to stream the concert over the Internet. Do they have any extra money to pay me for this? No, but that's fine; I'm already getting a fee. However, if we try to stream an event from Lincoln Center, we find there are all sorts of contractual obligations that are imposed. 
有意思的是，在美国以外的地方——举例而言，匈牙利和保加利亚——音乐产业已然取得了很大的进步。当我在当地的音乐厅里演出，而他们决定在线直播这场音乐的话，我一定激动的不行。他们会为此给我加钱吗？不，不过这又有啥；我已经拿到演出费了。相反如果我们试图在林肯中心直播点啥的话，就会发现各种各样的合同义务早已将我们枷锁缠身。
Moreover, the entire structure of numerous groups is somewhat skewed. The USA has only one vice president, so why do we need so many different vice presidents within these musical organizations? Why does a symphony orchestra need half a dozen, or perhaps even nine or ten vice presidents? I am afraid we have reached a "point of no return," and we must look at the big picture and try to determine what will provide us with a future – a future for these youngsters whom we're teaching in the schools! Where are they going to work, if we can't sustain these institutions? 
不仅如此，许多音乐组织的整体结构都是扭曲的。美国只有一个副总统，那为什么在这些音乐组织里，我们需要那么多不同的副总统呢？为什么一个交响乐团需要6个，甚至9个、10个副总统？我担忧的是我们已经踏上了一条“不归路，”我们必须从大局出发，并试着找出一个方向，一个有未来的方向——那是我们的学生的未来，那些尚在学校里的年轻人的未来！如果我们连那些音乐厅都无力维系的话，他们又会去哪里工作？
THIRSTY: Good question! Where will the money come from?
THIRSTY: 好问题！那么钱从哪里来呢？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: We can't just say, "Oh, we'll reduce the amount that goes to the military-industrial complex." Our society doesn't work that way. And the problem is universal, not just American. We see it Europe, even in the German-speaking world! I suppose in Berlin and Vienna things are still reasonably OK, but they, too, are going through changes, and they must provide for these changes in order to sustain the various musical events – operas, recitals, orchestral concerts, even the teaching. I think South Korea is doing quite well; Australia is coming back, musically——
祖克曼：我们不能只是说，“哦！我们要削减军工复合体的开销。”我们的社会不是这么运作的。而且这个问题不只是美国的问题，这是全球性的问题。我们看到欧洲，甚至在德语世界也是如此！我猜测在柏林和维也纳情况还是可以的，但他们也面临着变化，为了维护各种各样的音乐活动——歌剧，音乐会，交响音乐会甚至是教学，他们必须应对变化，做好准备。我认为韩国做的很好，澳大利亚在音乐上也在恢复——
THIRSTY: And China?
THIRSTY: 还有中国？
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Oh, China, of course, but it's a really long road to determine precisely what music can convey. It's not just the "calisthenics" – like listening to someone play "La Campanella" [Paganini – ed.] at a faster tempo than anyone else. People will lose interest pretty quickly. The government there will also need to open far more doors and windows to help people understand how much more "music" actually involves. 
祖克曼：哦，中国，当然，但是古典音乐究竟要向中国传达什么？准确的定位仍然要花很长时间。这可不只是比“健身”（指类似体育训练一样的反复练习，而没有音乐美学加入其中）——就像听某个人以超人的速度演奏《钟》（帕格尼尼原作，李斯特改编）。人们很快就会对此丧失兴趣。中国政府也需要更加开放，打开更多门窗以帮助中国人民理解音乐更为广阔的方方面面。
THIRSTY: Still, there are some very fine Chinese performers these day.
THIRSTY: 不过，现在乐界有许多十分优秀的中国演奏家。
PINCHAS ZUKERMAN: Yes, although great players do not arise from the numbers alone. We do see some very fine Chinese musicians over here, but not all of the ones who come to the USA develop into truly great performers. Those who do must go back to China and share what they have learned here with the next generation – as some are indeed doing!
祖克曼：是的，虽然伟大的演奏家绝不会是孤星独耀。而我们确实在这里眼见了一些非常优秀的中国音乐人，但并不是每一个来美国留学的乐手都能成为真正伟大的表演艺术家。那些学有所成的必须回到中国，把这里所习得的传授给下一代中国音乐人，正如一些人正在做的那样！（未完待续，明天继续）
音乐编译组公众号往期推送：1、八十岁时论阿劳丨论阿劳的演奏艺术；2、八十五岁论阿劳丨他的演奏何以伟大？3、钢琴家特里福诺夫专访丨“我在游泳池里练琴”；4、十五问王羽佳丨“演出”对你意味着什么？5、王羽佳访谈丨“穿长裙？待我四十岁！”6、王羽佳专访丨她赢得了没有参加的“比赛”！7、采访阿格里奇丨“音乐必须是自然流露的事情！” 8、帕尔曼追忆海菲兹丨“这么多小提琴家都试图模仿他，但他们的演奏却成了活生生的讽刺。”；9、肖邦大赛访傅聪丨“这个比赛没有完美的玛祖卡。” 10、韩国钢琴家赵成珍访谈丨“如果我遇见肖邦……”；11、憨豆先生采访郎朗丨谈肖邦以及古典音乐普及；12、古稀之年克莱默访谈丨谈《克莱默版贝多芬协奏曲》（亨勒出版社）；13、“奥伊斯特拉赫经常鼓励我，去寻找属于自己的声音”丨“当代怪杰”吉顿·克莱默访谈；14、“指挥家”李云迪访谈丨“音乐源自内心，这就是为什么即便我们一遍遍地弹奏相同的曲子，表演依然不是机械化的原因。” 15、郎朗弟子马克西姆·朗多访谈丨“郎朗对所有事物的热情深深感染着我，当我们在一起演奏时，可以感受到创造出的音乐竟然如此欢乐！” 16、肖邦“迷妹”阿格里奇论肖邦《第一钢琴协奏曲》丨“我多么渴望去亲眼看到肖邦怎样弹琴！”；17、纽爱新总监梵志登访谈丨“我并不想被公众看作对某位作曲家有特殊癖好，演的最多或最为喜欢。” 18、埃格纳钢琴三重奏访谈丨你有父亲、母亲和孩子，等我们长大了，孩子就会成为父亲和母亲，这就是室内乐想要阐明的观点！19、华裔小提琴家侯以嘉访谈丨“没有技巧就没有表达的自由；但只关注技术，很快会变得无聊或疲劳，并失去练习专注度。”
20、郎朗访谈丨“有时候父亲把我逼得太紧了，可他是爱我的！” 21、哈农库特访谈丨“我所探寻的始终是作曲家为什么要这样写”；22、面对批评，郎朗很委屈丨“我想让古典音乐表现得酷炫一点，这有什么不好么？”；23、“准备好了”丨回忆海菲兹小提琴大师班；24、美酒，女人和钢琴丨钢琴家鲁宾斯坦的三原色；25、纪念李帕蒂丨他坚称乐谱是“我们的圣经”，但对作品内在精神的解读更重要！26、周善祥访谈丨不想当钢琴家的作曲家不是好数学家；27、席夫丨为何我的《哥德堡变奏曲》宛如与魔鬼跳舞？28、卡萨尔斯论演奏丨“我们必须学会不要每个音符都完全照搬谱子上写的拉。” 29、钢琴家李斯蒂莎访谈丨我为何“在YouTube创建自己的频道”？30、席夫访谈丨“我们必须努力向公众解释如何聆听美妙的音乐。” 31、托斯卡尼尼与川普丨作为权力工具的古典音乐；32、论托斯卡尼尼丨热爱自由并勇于行动；33、布伦德尔谈周善祥丨“你可以雇一个登山向导来教一个小孩儿怎么走路。” 34、指挥家圣克莱尔论布鲁克纳《第八交响曲》丨“他并不浪漫，你在他的音乐中并不能得到像柴科夫斯基或者马勒交响曲中所得到的感受。” 35、“音乐绝对不是知识”丨钢琴家白建宇访谈；36、鲁宾斯坦访谈丨“我告诉家人，如果我坚持钢琴事业太久就开枪打死我。” 37、罗斯特罗波维奇访谈（上）丨“在我演奏时，我不是在听大提琴的声音，而是在听一个管弦乐团。” 38、罗斯特罗波维奇访谈（下）丨“我从50年代开始指挥，这大大拓宽了我塑造音乐的视野。” 39、巴伦博伊姆访谈丨“柏林墙倒塌以来，世界一直处于缺乏领导的困境中。” 40、郑京和的回归丨“当我在舞台上时，上帝与我同在！”
41、巴伦博伊姆遇见阿格里奇丨“当音乐家们沉浸在自己的音乐世界中时，他们的表情传递出自然和精神力量。” 42、爸爸巴赫到底有多少小崽子？ 43、我问郑京和，经历了这么多事情，重新站上舞台是什么感觉？44、基辛访谈丨“我们钢琴家非常幸运：钢琴曲目如此之多，我只希望活得足够长，能学到我想演奏的一切。” 45、他差点成为“古尔德”丨阿劳与巴赫的故事；46、基辛访谈丨“我们钢琴家非常幸运：钢琴曲目如此之多，我只希望活得足够长，能学到我想演奏的一切。” 47、他是钢琴家，却说自己“的目标是尽量少练习”丨迪巴格访谈；48、“我们要从象牙塔中取出音乐”丨巴伦博伊姆访谈；49、“我不想听伊莎贝拉·福斯特以外任何人演奏的协奏曲。” 50、“我不是唯一戴眼镜的钢琴家”丨迪巴格访谈；51、休伊特访谈丨“你花时间学习巴赫，他必然回报你很多”；52、休伊特访谈丨“要成为优秀的巴赫演奏者，也一定是一位学者。” 53、对话休伊特丨“每只手的每一根手指都可以通过巴赫的音乐的训练而变得有力。” 54、对话休伊特丨“我很幸运，通过做一些能给我和很多人带来乐趣的事情谋生。” 55、男高音阿兰尼亚专访（上）丨“我正在寻求的声音极其简单。” 56、一位世界级男高音的互联网思维丨阿兰尼亚专访（下）；57、钢琴家波利尼丨“我永远不选音乐之外的另一种生活！”；58、巴伦博伊姆访谈丨“我相信有很多以色列人梦想有一天醒来，发现巴勒斯坦人不见了。” 59、钢琴家马加洛夫回忆他第一次听到李帕蒂演奏；60、乔治乌访谈丨“在我之前歌剧演唱家不需要美貌。” 61、内田光子论莫扎特丨“没有什么比音乐家的生活更美好。” 62、捷杰耶夫访谈丨他要把古典音乐传播到世界各地，哪怕是最不可能的地方丨捷杰耶夫访谈；63、谷宇飞专访祖克曼丨“你必须与坐在音乐厅最后一排的观众积极传达你所演奏或指挥的曲目的意义。”
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