“我们要从象牙塔中取出音乐”丨巴伦博伊姆访谈
Interview with Daniel Barenboim
采访 丹尼尔.巴伦博伊姆
“相互欣赏是必不可少的”
——“Mutual Appreciation Is Essential”
往期内容推荐：1、巴伦博伊姆访谈丨“柏林墙倒塌以来，世界一直处于缺乏领导的困境中。” 2、巴伦博伊姆遇见阿格里奇丨“当音乐家们沉浸在自己的音乐世界中时，他们的表情传递出自然和精神力量。" 温度古典音乐往期内容：1、生与死的关系就如声音与寂静的关系丨读巴伦博伊姆的《生活在音乐中》①；2、巴伦博伊姆的爸爸是如何教他学钢琴的丨读《生活在音乐中》②；3、钢琴是中性的，而正是这一点使它具备了极为丰富的表现力丨巴伦博伊姆《生活在音乐中》摘录（一）；4、聆听巴伦博伊姆的“肺腑箴言”丨“艺术家与听众间的最佳交流方式是什么？” 5、巴伦博伊姆谈杜普蕾丨她有其他音乐家所没有的对于声音的想象力；6、巴伦博伊姆的爸爸如何教他弹钢琴？
Interview: Peter Zimmermann
采访: 彼得.齐默尔曼
Translator: Brave Heart Date: 12-04-2018
Pianist and conductor Daniel Barenboim has founded an academy in Berlin for musicians from the Middle East, an effort at easing decades of conflict. Peter Zimmermann talked to him about the background and his hopes for the project.
钢琴家兼指挥丹尼尔.巴伦博伊姆在柏林为中东音乐家创办了一所音乐学院，旨在缓解几十年的冲突。 彼得.齐默尔曼和他聊起了项目的背景和愿景。
Mr. Barenboim, even as a kid, you wanted to make music central to your life. But as you always say: Going from what you want to what you can do-that can be a long way indeed. What do you want to pass on to the scholarship recipients from Israel and Arab countries during their stay in Berlin as they go down their own paths?
问：巴伦博伊姆先生，即使是个孩子，你也想让音乐成为你生活的核心。 但是，正如你总是说的那样：从你想要的东西开始到你能做的事——这确实是一段很漫长的路。 当以色列和阿拉伯国家的奖学金获得者在柏林开展自己的音乐求索之路期间，你想对他们传递什么？
Daniel Barenboim: Of course, I’d like to teach them that high technical quality in playing is definitely necessary. But it goes much further than that. Music is not a profession. Music is a way of life-one that requires much professionalism.
丹尼尔.巴伦博伊姆：当然，我愿意教他们演奏中绝对必要的高质量的技巧。 但不只是这些技术还要更进一步。 （我要让他们明白）音乐不是一种职业，而是一种生活方式，而且相当具有专业性。
Back when young students came to visit Franz Liszt in Weimar, the composer and pianist hoped that through his training, they would become better people. That’s not just 19thcentury rhetoric; it’s really the case. We need to take music out of the ivory tower-both for musicians and for the public. Otherwise classical music will not survive the 21stcentury.
当年轻的学生来到魏玛拜访作为作曲家和钢琴家的弗朗兹.李斯特时，他希望通过他的指导，使他们成为更好的人。 这不仅仅是19世纪的言论；事实确实如此。 我们需要从象牙塔中取出音乐——无论是音乐家还是公众。 否则古典音乐将无法在21世纪继续存在。
Music is unfortunately no longer part of our culture. Children in schools need to have something to do with music and learn it the way they do literature, geography and biology. When we talk about music, we talk about our reaction to it. One person might say that music is so poetic, while another says it’s all mathematics. Yet another says it’s about sensually, and so on.
不幸的是音乐不再是我们文化的一部分。 学校里的孩子们需要与音乐有关联，并按照他们从事文学，地理和生物学的方式学习音乐。 当我们谈论音乐时，我们会谈论我们对它的反应。 一个人可能会说音乐是如此诗意，而另一个人则说这都是数学。 还有一个人说音乐是关于感官的……
That’s all true. But music is not just one of these things. It’s everything all at once. And each of us can find in it what we’re looking for.
这都是事实。 但音乐不仅仅是这些东西之一。他可以立刻成为一切的一切。 我们每个人都可以在里面找到我们想要的东西。
The Italian composer Ferruccio Busoni gave the best definition by saying: “Music is melodious air.” That says everything. And nothing at all. But it means that we have to show young people this spiritual, reflective and soulful aspect of music.
意大利作曲家费卢西奥.布索尼（Ferruccio Busoni ）给出了最好的定义：“音乐是悠扬的空气。”这说明了一切。 又不说明什么。 但这意味着我们必须向年轻人展现音乐的这种精神的，思想的和情感的元素。
Your academy has a clear political dimension. How exactly does that work in your view?
问：你的学院有明确的政治维度。 如何正确地将其作用于你的观点？
Barenboim:That’s not politics-it’s the opposite! Being political would be to say: I’m going to stand up for this or for that. I say: We’re not involved in political negotiations. We must simply try to understand and appreciate one another.
巴伦博伊姆：这不是政治——它是对立的！ 政治就是说：我会为此或为其它而站出来。 我说：我们不参与政治谈判。 我们必须简单地尝试理解和欣赏对方。
And is there a political message being sent to the Middle East by way of the German capital?
问：是否有通过德国首都向中东发送的政治信息？
Barenboim:Yeah, I am, of course, very thankful to the German government for financial aid. Because they’re saying: There’s a difficult situation here. We need to help everyone in this conflict, not just pit people against one another.
巴伦博伊姆：是的，我当然非常感谢德国政府提供财政援助。 因为他们说：这里处境艰难。 我们需要在这场冲突中帮助每个人，而不是让人们相互争斗。
(In 1999, Barenboim and Palestinian-American intellectual Edward said jointly founded the West-eastern Divan orchestra. It is an initiative to bring together a group of young classical musicians from Israel, the Palestinian territories and Arab countries to promote mutual reflection and understanding. )
（1999年，巴伦博伊姆和巴勒斯坦裔美国知识分子爱德华共同创立了西东合集管弦方乐团，这是一个将来自以色列，巴勒斯坦领土和阿拉伯国家的年轻古典音乐家聚集在一起以促进相互反思和理解的倡议。）
I am full of admiring for how multiple generations of Germans have examined and confronted the past. Otherwise I could not live here as a Jew. But now we have to think about the present and the future. And in my view, Germany may have additional obligations there.
我对德国几代人如何审视和面对过去充满了敬意。 否则我不能以犹太人的身份住在这里。 但现在我们必须考虑现在和未来。 在我看来，德国可能要承担额外的义务。
In five years, the Barenboim-Said Academy of Orchestral Studies in Berlin aims to be training up to 80 students from the Arab World and from Israel. The project that serves as its basis is your West Eastern Divan Orchestra. What do you hope to see come out of these plans?
五年来，柏林交响乐研究学院的巴伦博伊姆学院旨在培训来自阿拉伯世界和以色列的80名学生。 作为其基础的项目是您的西东合集管弦乐团。 你希望从这些计划中看到什么？
Barenboim:The full scale of the project will only be realized once the orchestra plays in all countries that are represented among its members. Once we’ve gone on tour and played in Istanbul, Beirut, Damascus, Tel Aviv, Amman, Jerusalem, Ramallah and Cairo-then we’ll know we’ve reached our full potential.
巴伦博伊姆：项目的全部范围只有在管弦乐团在其成员中代表的所有国家演出后才能实现。 一旦我们在伊斯坦布尔、贝鲁特、大马士革、特拉维夫、安曼、耶路撒冷、拉姆安拉和开罗参加巡演之后，我们就会知道我们已经发挥了全部潜力。
The Barenboim-Said Academy of Orchestral Students is a unique educational institution in Berlin, combining music training, the humanities and international relations into a wide-ranging curriculum. It is named in part after Palestinian professor Edward Said, with whom Barenboim founded the West-eastern Divan Orchestra.
巴伦博伊姆- 萨义德管弦乐学生研究院是柏林一所独一无二的教育机构，将音乐培训，人文和国际关系融入广泛的课程。 它的命名某种程度上是由于巴勒斯坦教授爱德华.萨义德与巴伦博伊姆建立了西东合集管弦乐团之后。
In a former facility of Berlin’s Unter den Linden opera house, classrooms and rehearsal spaces will be built for the scholarship recipients from Israel and Arab states. Star architect Frank Gehry and the staatskapelle Berlin will perform contemporary music. German parliament has already approved 20 million euros ($25.5 million) for the academy. An additional 8 million have been donated by private sponsors.
在柏林香榭丽大街歌剧院的前设施中，将为来自以色列和阿拉伯国家的奖学金获得者建造教室和彩排空间。 明星建筑师弗兰克.格里和柏林乐团将演奏当代音乐。 德国议会已经批准2000万欧元（2550万美元）用于学院。 私人赞助商还捐赠了800万美元。
Barenboim, a supporter of Palestinian rights, is an outspoken critic of Israel’s conservative governments and the Israel occupation of the Palestinian territories. In an interview in 2003, Barenboim accused Israel of behaving in a manner which was, “morally abhorrent and strategically wrong”
作为巴勒斯坦权利的支持者，巴伦博伊姆是对以色列保守政府和以色列占领巴勒斯坦领土的直言不讳的批评者。 在2003年的一次采访中，巴伦博伊姆指责以色列的行为方式是“道德上可恶和战略上错误的”。
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版权声明：以上内容为用户推荐收藏至CareerEngine平台，其内容（含文字、图片、视频、音频等）及知识版权均属用户或用户转发自的第三方网站，如涉嫌侵权，请通知[email protected]进行信息删除。如需查看信息来源，请点击“查看原文”。如需洽谈其它事宜，请联系[email protected]。