《在现代钢琴上演奏巴赫》（二）
THE GREAT CANADIAN ARTISTS
——AN INTERVIEW WITH PIANIST ANGELA HEWITT
加拿大著名艺术家：钢琴家安吉拉·休伊特访谈
休伊特访谈丨“你花时间学习巴赫，他必然回报你很多”
Angela Hewitt grew up in Ottawa, beginning her piano studies at the age of three. She gave her first full-length recital at the age of nine at the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto, where she studied from 1964 to 1973. She later studied with Jean-Paul Sevilla at the University of Ottawa.  The pianist is now universally recognized for her path-breaking series of recordings of Bach’s keyboard works for Hyperion which began in 1994 and finished in 2005. She recorded the ultimate masterpiece, The Art of the Fugue, in 2014. Between those dates, many new discs of Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Debussy, Fauré, and others were also released. In 2005, Angela Hewitt launched the Trasimeno Music Festival in Umbria near Perugia, of which she is Artistic Director. A 10th anniversary concert takes place in London this spring. The pianist is also an Ambassador for The Leading Note Foundation’s ’Orkidstra’: a social engagement and development program in Ottawa’s inner city. Angela Hewitt was named ‘Artist of the Year’ at the 2006 Gramophone Awards and was awarded an OBE in the Queen’s Birthday Honours of the same year. She was made an Officer of the Order of Canada in 2000. 
安吉拉·休伊特在渥太华长大，三岁开始学习钢琴。她于1964年至1973年在多伦多皇家音乐学院学习，并在9岁时首次举办了她的全长独奏会。后来她在渥太华大学跟随让- 保罗塞维利亚（Jean-Paul Sevilla）学习。安吉拉•休伊特这位钢琴家现在被广泛认可，因其在1994年到2005年间为Hyperion公司录制了巴赫键盘作品开创性（path-breaking）的系列录音带。她在2014年录制了终极杰作《赋格的艺术》。
在这些日子之间，贝多芬，莫扎特，肖邦，德彪西，福雷等人的新碟也被发行。2005年，安吉拉•休伊特作为艺术总监在佩鲁贾附近的翁布里亚举办了特拉西梅诺音乐节。今年春天，伦敦举办了十周年音乐会。钢琴家安吉拉•休伊特也是“引领音符”基金会（'Orkidstra'，渥太华市内的一个社会参与和发展项目）的大使。安吉拉·休伊特在2006年留声机奖评为“年度最佳艺人”，并在同年女王的生日荣誉上被授予英帝国勋章。她于2000年获得加拿大官员荣誉勋章。
《在现代钢琴上演奏巴赫》（三）
Angela Hewitt’s most memorable concerts in Vancouver in recent years have been her performances of Bach’s Well-Tempered Clavier, Books I and II, and the complete Beethoven Cello Sonatas with Daniel Muller-Schott. I was able to sit down and talk to her after a busy day of preparing Ravel’s Left-Hand Concerto and Falla’s Nights in the Gardens of Spain for performance with the Vancouver Symphony. 
安吉拉·休伊特近年来在温哥华举办的最令人难忘的演奏会是她演奏巴赫的《十二平均律钢琴曲集》（BWV 846–893），第I 和第II卷，以及与丹尼尔·穆勒-肖特（Daniel Muller-Schott）合作的完整的贝多芬大提琴奏鸣曲。在她忙碌了一天，准备拉威尔的《左手协奏曲》和法雅的《西班牙花园之夜》与温哥华交响乐团的表演后，我可以坐下来采访她了。
《在现代钢琴上演奏巴赫》（四）
1.   EVERYBODY NATURALLY ASSOCIATES YOU WITH BACH, BUT NOW YOU SEEMINGLY PLAY A GREAT MANY OTHER THINGS. WERE YOU A BAROQUE SPECIALIST BY TRAINING WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG, OR WAS THE RANGE OF YOUR REPERTOIRE REALLY QUITE LARGE? 
每个人都很自然地把你和巴赫联系在一起，但现在你似乎演奏很多其他的作品。当你年轻的时候，你是一个训练有素的巴洛克专家，还是你的曲目范围真的很广? 
My father was organist and choirmaster, so I was introduced to Bach right from my infancy. Perhaps he held the view that it was not good to give a child too much romantic music early on but I did have a large repertoire soon enough. By the age of 15, I was playing a lot of Chopin and Liszt, and Ravel too.
休伊特：我父亲是管风琴手和唱诗班大师，所以我从小就接触了巴赫。也许他认为在早期给一个孩子太多的浪漫音乐是不好的，但是我很快就有了很多的曲目可以练习。15岁的时候，我演奏了很多肖邦和李斯特，还有拉威尔的曲目。
2.   I KNOW YOU STUDIED WITH JEAN-PAUL SEVILLA AT THE UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA. BUT I HAVE VERY LITTLE FEELING FOR ALL THE EARLY INFLUENCES ON YOUR BACH INTERPRETATION.
我知道你曾在渥太华大学跟随让-保罗塞维利亚（Sevilla）学习过。但我对你巴赫对你早期表演的影响知之甚少。
Yes, Sevilla loved to play Bach, and I had the recordings by Glenn Gould and Rosalyn Tureck. Yet I think that it was my father who was still the key influence: all Bach’s great organ works were with us at every moment when I was growing up. I sung Bach, danced Bach, and even played Bach on the violin, which I studied as well. Perhaps one other inspiration later was the ‘authentic’ movement which was gaining momentum in the 1980s. I was very intrigued by what conductors like Trevor Pinnock, Roger Norrington and John Eliot Gardner were doing.    
休伊特：是的，塞维利亚喜欢演奏巴赫，我有格伦·古尔德（Glenn Gould）和罗莎琳·图雷克（Rosalyn Tureck）的唱片。然而，我认为我的父亲仍然是关键的影响:在我成长的每一个时刻，巴赫伟大的风琴作品都伴随着我。我唱过巴赫的作品，跳过巴赫的作品，甚至学过用小提琴演奏巴赫的作品。也许后来的另一个灵感是在20世纪80年代获得推动力的“真实”运动。我对特雷沃·平诺克（Trevor Pinnock），罗杰·诺林顿（Roger Norrington）和约翰·埃利奥特·加德纳（John Eliot Gardner）这样的指挥家都很感兴趣。
3.   SO, FROM VERY EARLY ON, YOU WERE CONSCIOUS OF HISTORICAL STYLE WHEN YOU PERFORMED BACH?
所以，从很早开始，你在演奏巴赫的时候就意识到了音乐演奏的历史痕迹吗? 
Yes, I felt that to be a good Bach player you also must be something of a scholar, finding out about the time when a piece was written, the exact feeling and character of the dances, and so on. When I started, I followed the rules in the Book of Ornaments fairly strictly, but as time has passed, I have become more flexible. The important thing for me now is how ‘musical’ the ornament is. It must really be consistent with the musical flow and, of course, it must always be in good taste. As you might expect, I have examined many interpretations on the harpsichord and I have actually tried the instrument myself. Unfortunately, a major limitation is that one cannot ‘taper’ on it – play one note louder or softer than the preceding one.    
休伊特：是的，我觉得要成为一个优秀的巴赫演奏者，你也一定是一个学者，发现一个作品的创作时间，舞蹈的确切感觉和特性，等等。当我开始的时候，我严格遵守了《装饰音书》（the Book of Ornaments）中的规定，但随着时间的流逝，我变得更加灵活。现在对我来说最重要的是如何演奏“音乐”装饰音。它必须与音乐的流动相一致，当然，它必须始终保持高品位。正如你所预料的那样，我已经研究过大键琴的许多表演，而且我自己也尝试过这种乐器。不幸的是，一个主要的限制在于，在它上面不能“逐渐减弱”，演奏一个比之前更响亮或更柔和的音符。
4.   WHEN YOU LISTEN TO YOUR EARLY RECORDINGS OF BACH, ARE YOU VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE ADVANCES YOU HAVE MADE OVER THE YEARS?
当你听你早期演奏的巴赫录音时，你是否意识到你多年来所取得的进步呢? 
Take for example my two recordings of the Well-Tempered Clavier, the first in 1997, the second in 2008. I know some people still like the former but I think that the latter is significantly better, having much more colour and rhythmic freedom. More generally, I think that I have become more advanced technically over the years. I still practice as much as I used to, but I have much more power and assurance and I can do difficult things more easily. This is also very important in playing the larger romantic repertoire.  
休伊特：举个例子，我的两段《十二平均律钢琴曲集》录音，第一次是在1997年，第二次是在2008年。我知道一些人仍然喜欢前者，但我认为后者明显更好，拥有更多的色彩和节奏自由。更主要的，我认为我比前几年在技术上变得更高超了。我仍然像过去那样练习，但我拥有更多的动力，并保证我可以更轻松地完成难题。这一点在演奏更多的浪漫剧目时也很重要。
5.   AS A PERFORMER, WHEN YOU PLAY THE ART OF THE FUGUE, AS YOU HAVE DONE IN RECENT YEARS, DO YOU FIND YOU NEED A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MIND-SET TO CARRY YOU THROUGH? HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS FROM, SAY, PLAYING THE GOLDBERG VARIATIONS?
作为一个表演者，当你演奏赋格的艺术（BWV 1080）时，正如你近年来所做的那样，你是否发现你需要一种完全不同的思维方式来让你完成? 这与演奏哥德堡变奏曲（BWV 988）有什么不同呢? 
In such a massive piece, your sheer stamina is so important, and you must learn to pace yourself over its full span. Every movement is a fugue—there are no Preludes for comic relief. As critic Wilfrid Mellers put it, it is “Bach playing to God and himself in an empty church." The Goldberg Variations require great concentration too but they are of course shorter, less contrapuntal, and allow more variety of expression. 
休伊特：在如此巨大的音乐作品中，你的毅力是如此重要，你必须学会在它的整个跨度中调整自己。每一个动作都是一首赋格曲——没有喜剧性的前奏。正如批评家维尔福雷德·米勒斯所说的那样，它是“巴赫在一个空荡荡的教堂里向上帝和他自己演奏。”《哥德堡变奏曲》也需要非常专注，但是它们当然更短，更少的对位，并且允许更多的表达。
6.   ON THE ISSUE OF PLAYING WITH A MUSICAL SCORE IN FRONT OF YOU, DO YOU CONDONE THAT MORE GENERALLY?
关于在你面前演奏使用乐谱的问题上，你是否没那么讲究？
I would certainly discourage young musicians from doing this. I think that playing from memory allows you to be more interiorized and freer and, besides, keeping a good memory is a critical resource for when you get older. Having said that, on occasion I do use the score -- which I now put on my iPad so as to turn the pages with my foot – when playing works that are immensely complicated. For pieces like the Art of the Fugue, there may be no alternative. 
休伊特：我肯定会劝阻年轻的音乐家这样做。我认为凭记忆演奏可以更深入内心和自由，而且，保持良好的记忆力是你年龄增长的关键资源。话虽如此，有时候我会划分，我现在演奏非常复杂的作品时，我还是会用我iPad上的乐谱，用我的脚来翻动书页。对于诸如赋格的艺术之类的作品，可能别无选择。
7.   A NUMBER OF PIANISTS HAVE SAID THAT IF YOU CAN PLAY BACH WELL, YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING WELL. DO YOU AGREE?
很多钢琴家都说过，如果你能很好的演奏巴赫的音乐，你就能很好演奏任何作品。你同意吗? 
Yes, I think that is true. It is a mistake for any pianist to not work on their Bach, since fundamental things like architecture, independence of fingering, and equality of left and right hand strength are all there. I think pianists who attempt later works without these fundamentals are definitely at a disadvantage.   
休伊特：是的，我认为这是事实。对于任何没有演奏巴赫作品的钢琴家来说是一个错误，因为基本的东西，像结构、指法的独立性、左手和右手的力量等基本要素都在那里。我认为，那些在没有这些基础的情况下尝试演奏巴赫的钢琴家，肯定是处于劣势。
8.   YOU ALSO PLAYED AND RECORDED RAVEL FAIRLY EARLY ON. THE LINK BETWEEN BACH AND THE FRENCH PIANO TRADITION HAS A LONG HISTORICAL PRECEDENT, IN ROBERT CASADESUS, MARCELLE MEYER, AND OTHERS. HOW DID YOU ESTABLISH THIS AFFINITY?
你也很早就开始演奏和录制拉威尔。法国钢琴演奏传统历来就与巴赫音乐不可分割，在罗伯特·卡萨迪斯（Robert Casadesus）、马塞勒·迈耶（Marcelle Meyer）等人的作品中都有。你是如何建立这种密切联系的? 
For the record, I actually recorded Ravel’s complete piano music right in the middle of my traversal of Bach’s complete keyboard works -- in 2001.  Much of my early exposure came directly from Jean Paul Sevilla, who graduated from the Paris Conservatoire. There are some interesting historical stories about this link: apparently when Debussy played a Bach Prelude and Fugue in competition, he was marked down for being too expressive. 
休伊特：为了纪录，我实际上在2001年我遍布巴赫完整键盘作品的中间记录了拉威尔的完整钢琴音乐。我很早就接触过来自巴黎音乐学院毕业生让-保罗·塞维利亚的作品。关于这个环节有一些有趣的历史故事：显然，当德彪西在比赛中演奏巴赫前奏曲和赋格时，他被标记为过于富有表现力。
9.   YOU HAVE RECORDED FAURE AND DEBUSSY TOO. DO YOU FIND THESE COMPOSERS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM RAVEL?
你也已经录制了福尔和德彪西（的作品）。你觉得这些作曲家与拉威尔有很大不同吗? 
With both Ravel and Debussy you must pay great attention to the tempi, rubati and the ‘sound’ itself. You must really work on the balance in the harmonies, the voicing in the chords (from top to bottom), and the sound cannot be too heavy. Even Debussy must be approached with the same care and attention as a Bach fugue. Faure is very different, more ‘classical’ in feeling. You really must find a distinct style for each. 
休伊特：拉威尔和德彪西都必须非常注意节奏，rubati（编者按：rubato？音乐术语：自由节拍）和“声音”本身。你必须真正在和声的平衡，和弦的发音（从上到下），声音不能太重。即使德彪西也必须像巴赫赋格曲一样得到同样的关心和关注。弗雷是非常不同的，更“古典”的感觉。你必须为每个人找到一种独特的风格。
10、YOU ARE MOVING QUICKLY TO PERFORMING AND RECORDING CONCERTOS? FOR EXAMPLE, YOU NOW HAVE THREE VOLUMES OF THE MOZART CONCERTOS RELEASED.  HOW DIFFERENT DO YOU FIND IT PLAYING WITH AN ORCHESTRA?
你正在快速地表演和录制协奏曲吗? 例如，您现在已经发行了三卷莫扎特协奏曲。你觉得它和管弦乐演奏有什么不同? 
Actually, when you are so well known for your Bach, it is sometimes more difficult to get orchestra managers to invite you to play other parts of the repertoire, such as larger concertos. I have studied and played many of the standard concertos since I was young. The one thing about playing with a conductor is that there sometimes has to be compromise, and in general a soloist cannot mesh with all conductors. I am thrilled with my collaboration with Finnish conductor Hannu Lintu in the Mozart concertos, and we have also recorded the Schumann concerto. I think we are a great match: he is as much a ‘perfectionist’ as I am. I can also get very good results conducting myself from the keyboard (which I do more often now), and then it becomes like chamber music. But in something like the Mozart’s K. 491 concerto (and especially in its last movement), it helps to have a really top-notch conductor.
休伊特：实际上，当你以演奏巴赫闻名于世的时候，有时让管弦乐队的队长邀请你演奏其他曲目，比如更大的协奏曲，会更加困难。我从小就学习并演奏过很多这类水平的协奏曲。与指挥一起演奏这件事有时必须要妥协，一般来说，一个独奏者不能配合所有的指挥。我很高兴我和芬兰指挥家汉努·哈利宁（Hannu Lintu）合作莫扎特协奏曲，我们也录制了舒曼的协奏曲（Schumann concerto Op. 54）。我认为我们是一个完美的配合：他和我一样是一个“完美主义者”。我也可以从琴键上获得非常好的效果（我现在经常这样做），然后它变得像室内乐。但是就像莫扎特的协奏曲（the Mozart’s K. 491 concerto）（尤其是最后一个乐章）而言，它有助于成为一位真正的顶尖指挥家。
11.WHAT ABOUT LIEDER ACCOMPANIMENT? I KNOW THAT YOU WILL BE PERFORMING WITH DAME FELICITY LOTT SOON. DO YOU THINK THERE IS A SPECIAL ART TO ACCOMPANYING VOICE?
歌曲伴奏呢? 我知道你很快就要和费利西蒂·洛特（Felicity Lott）一起演出了。你认为伴音是一种特殊的艺术吗？
Yes, I am very excited about accompanying Felicity, and we have performed together before. One of my greatest joys is accompanying a truly great singer. The reason is simple: I love to sing too, and this gives us both a great freedom. I sing everywhere, and sing all the time when I am practicing. (I am not sure that my neighbours always appreciate this!) In general, I think it is critical for an accompanist to understand what a singer can do. If you are aware of ‘breath’ training and control, that certainly helps.   
休伊特：是的，我对为费利西蒂伴奏非常兴奋，我们之前一起表演过。我最大的快乐之一是陪伴一个真正伟大的歌手。原因很简单：我也爱唱歌，这给了我们很大的自由。我在任何地方唱歌，并在练习时一直唱歌。（我不确定我的邻居是否总是欣赏这一点！）总的来说，我认为对于一个伴奏者来说，了解一个歌手能做什么至关重要。如果你知道“呼吸”的训练和控制，那当然有帮助。
12.WHAT EXPLAINS YOUR RECENT INTEREST IN LISZT?
你最近对李斯特感兴趣的原因是什么？
Well, in many ways, this is sheer nostalgia. I won competition prizes with the B minor Sonata when I was 17, and have played the work throughout my life. I knew the Dante Sonata from 1985. I actually did not like the B minor Sonata at all when I very first heard it, but became converted when I heard Jean-Paul Sevilla play it. 
休伊特：那么，在许多方面，这是纯粹的怀旧情绪。17岁的时候，我赢得了《B小调奏鸣曲》（K. 27）的比赛奖品，并在我的一生中一直在演奏。我从1985年就知道但丁奏鸣曲。当我第一次听到B小调奏鸣曲的时候，我并不喜欢它，但当我听到让-保罗·塞维利亚演奏时，我就转变了态度。
13.I KNOW THAT MANY PEOPLE MIGHT BE WONDERING WHETHER YOU ARE PLANNING TO PERFORM THE FULL CYCLE OF BACH'S KEYBOARD WORKS ALL OVER AGAIN.
我知道很多人可能会想，你是否打算从头再做一次巴赫的键盘的完整循环。
That is a big question: the answer is ‘yes’! 
休伊特：这是个很重要的问题:答案是“是”! 
14.MANY PIANISTS ARE VERY COMMITTED TO THEIR OWN PIANO, AS YOU ARE TO YOUR FAZIOLI. BUT DO YOU THINK DIFFERENT PIANOS WORK BETTER FOR DIFFERENT REPERTOIRE?
许多钢琴家都非常忠于自己的钢琴，就像你对你的法奇奥利一样。但是你认为不同的钢琴演奏不同的曲目效果更好吗? 
In many ways, that is true, since different pianos have a distinct character and tonal palette that suit different repertoire. Look at the sheer variety of pianos available over the last century. Somebody put me down as a Steinway artist back in the early 1980s (I’m not sure why because I never owned one), but I was taken off the list when I purchased a Fazioli F278 grand in 2003. While there is always considerable variability in quality even in pianos made by any given maker, Fazioli has very high quality across the board, and I think my own Fazioli concert grand is terrific for any repertoire.
休伊特：在许多方面，这是正确的，因为不同的钢琴有不同的特点和调色板，适合不同的曲目。看看上个世纪各种各样的钢琴。有人在20世纪80年代早期把我当作一个施坦威艺术家（我不知道为什么，因为我从来没有拥有过一个），但是当我在2003年购买了台法奇奥利F278大钢琴的时候，我被从名单中拿走了。尽管任何一家制造商生产的钢琴在质量上总是存在很大的差异，但法奇奥利的质量非常高，我认为我自己的法奇奥利大钢琴对于音乐会的任何曲目都非常棒。
15.VIRTUALLY ALL ARTISTS ARE MORE SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS THAN THEY USED TO BE, AND I HAVE READ ABOUT YOUR HUMANITARIAN INITIATIVE 'ORKIDSTRA'. WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE SEEING THIS CHANGE?
实际上，所有艺术家比过去更有社会意识，并且我读过关于您的人道主义倡议' Orkidstra '。为什么你认为我们正在看到这种变化？
Is it a change really? Liszt often played without fee, and funded himself the great monument to Beethoven. But I understand what you mean: musicians are now expected to participate in many types of public engagement activities and create or support charities. Yes, there is considerable pressure in this direction. It would certainly be very difficult to get a conducting post in North America if you didn’t agree to do social events. 
休伊特：这真的是一个改变吗？李斯特经常无偿地参加比赛，并为贝多芬伟大的纪念碑投资。但我明白你的意思：音乐家们现在被期望参加各种类型的公众参与活动，并创建或支持慈善机构。是的，这个方向有相当大的压力。如果您不同意参加社交活动，那么在北美获得指挥职位肯定会非常困难。
16.BEING CANADIAN, IT MUST ALWAYS BE A PLEASURE TO COME BACK AND PERFORM IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR FONDEST CANADIAN MEMORIES?
作为一个加拿大人，在你自己的国家回来演出一定是一件很愉快的事情。你最喜欢的加拿大记忆是什么?
I have always enjoyed the warmth of Canadians and I have so many welcoming friends here whenever I come back. Little things, such as being able to record my most recent volume of the Mozart concertos with my original hometown orchestra, the National Arts Centre Orchestra, in 2013, certainly mean something to me. This week actually means a great deal to me: Sunday (May 11, 2015) is the 30th anniversary of my winning of the 1985 Toronto International Bach Competition, a prize that entitled me to record my initial disc for Deutsche Grammophon, and set my career on its way. 
休伊特：我一直享受加拿大人的温暖，每当我回来时，我都有很多欢迎的朋友。一些小事情，例如能够在2013年与我的原创家乡管弦乐团，国家艺术中心管弦乐队录制我最近的莫扎特协奏曲的音乐，对我来说无疑意义重大。这周对我来说意义重大:周日(2015年5月11日)是我赢得1985年多伦多国际巴赫大赛的30周年纪念日，这是一项让我有资格为德意志留声机唱片(Deutsche Grammophon)录制我的首张唱片的奖项，并让我的事业走上正轨。© Geoffrey Newman 2015

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