怀念杜普蕾(中文字幕)
Jacqueline du Pré interview
'You must have spontaneityand too much study destroys that'
杰奎琳·杜普蕾访谈
——“你必须有自发性,过度的学习会破坏它。”
本文作者艾伦·布莱斯(Alan Blyth),
采访与1969年,刊登于《留声机》杂志
Jacqueline du Pré with her then-husband Daniel Barenboim
杰奎琳·杜普蕾和当时的丈夫丹尼尔·巴伦博伊姆(Daniel Barenboim):
勃拉姆斯大提琴奏鸣曲(杜普蕾/巴伦博伊姆)
All the world loves a lover and since Jacqueline du Pré loves both her cello and Daniel Barenboim the musical world has found reason doubly to adore her. To meet, she conveys an absolute naturalness of manner, somehow reticent and exuberant at the same time. Reputedly shy before interviewers, she seemed to me the easiest person in the world to talk to when we met in between rehearsals at the Royal Festival Hall green room.
全世界都爱一个有爱好的人。自从杰奎琳·杜普蕾同时爱着她的大提琴和丹尼尔·巴伦博伊姆,音乐界就有了双倍的理由来崇拜她。见面会上,她的表现绝对是自然而然流露的,忽而内向同时又神采飞扬。据说她在采访者面前很羞涩。而当我们在皇家音乐厅(Royal Festival Hall)绿色室彩排遇见时,我觉得她是这个世界上最容易交谈的人。 
埃尔加大提琴协奏曲(杰奎琳·杜普蕾/丹尼尔·巴伦博伊姆)
She has lived music all her life and yet is in no way cut off from the everyday world; it just seems the only way for her to express herself fully. And that she has been doing since the age of four when, after hearing a cello on the radio, her mother gave her one to play. 'My mother was a tremendous inspiration', Jacqueline told me. 'She guided my first steps, wrote tunes for me to play, and drew pictorial descriptions of the melodies. These were quite beautiful and I used to find them tucked under my pillow in the morning so that I couldn't wait to get my hands on the cello again every day. My mother also taught me composition.
她的一生都生活在音乐中,从不中断。这就像是表达她自己的唯一方式。这一切从她四岁时就开始了。那时她在电台接听到大提琴的声音,她妈妈就拿出一把大提琴给她演奏。“我妈妈富有灵感”,杰奎琳告诉我。她是我最初的引导人,她写调子供我演奏,把旋律用图片的形式展现出来,这些都很漂亮,我过去常常每天早上发现它们被藏在我的枕头底下,然后我就迫不及待地用我的手在大提琴上演奏,每天如此。我妈妈也会教我作曲。
'When I was six, I went to the London Cello School and studied with Herbert Whalen and Alison Dalrymple, who was wonderful with children. There was never any compulsion from anybody. If I wanted to climb a tree, I did that instead. When I was 10, I went to William Pleeth, who has been my "cello Daddy" ever since.
当我六岁时,我进入伦敦大提琴学校(London Cello School),师从赫伯特·惠伦(Herbert Whalen)和艾莉森·达林普(Alison Dalrymple)。他们和孩子们玩得很好,没有任何人会强迫你。如果我想去爬树,我就去爬。当我10岁时,我来到了威廉·普列兹(William Pleeth)这儿学习,从那以后他就成了我的“大提琴爸爸” 。
'My schooling proper stopped at that time and I started to have a private tutor. I remember I was envious of my sister and her GCE success. She was — still is — a good flautist, also encouraged by my mother but she has little chance to play now that she is married and has four children.
从严格意义上来说,我的学业在那时就停止了,我开始有了一位私教。我记得我很羡慕我的姐姐取得了GCE(通用教育证书),她曾经是——现在仍然是——一位优秀的长笛手,同时她也受到妈妈的鼓励,但是她几乎没有机会去演奏了,因为她结婚了,还有四个孩子。 
'I would like to emphasize just how much I owe to Pleeth. He taught me for seven years, got me over a difficult and uncertain time during my adolescence, and by his articulate approach made music really exciting for me. From the minute I first saw him, I admired his warmth. Our paths seldom cross now but when they do we always find time to compare notes.'
“我想强调一下,我有多么感激普列兹。他教了我七年,帮我度过了那段艰难不安的青春期,通过他清晰的处理方式使我对音乐感到非常兴奋。从我第一次见到他,我就欣赏他的热情。我们现在很少有见面有交集,但是一旦有交集时,我们总会找出时间来切磋。”  
Her first success in public was her Wigmore Hall concert when she was 16, since when her career has not looked back. She had spells studyingwith Tortelier — 'a great musician and inspiration' — when she was 17 and with Rostropovich when she was 21. 'Tortelier was a different sort of teacher from Pleeth. He is a very analytical man and in my first private lessons with him I learnt a lot about the fingers and joints. When I went to the Paris Conservatoire in a masterclass, it wasn't quite the same. There was an audience and I felt I did not gain as much. Rostro is like a volcano and it was exciting to work with him. But all my interpretations stem from Pleeth's grounding — the other two just added their wonderful personalities'.
杰奎琳首次成功公开演奏是她16岁时在威格莫尔音乐厅(Wigmore Hall)的音乐会上,那时开始,她的职业生涯就再也没有回头过。她17岁和托尔特利耶(Tortelier,一位伟大的富有灵感的音乐家)学习技能,21岁时和罗斯托波维奇(Rostropovich)学习。“托尔特利耶是和普列兹不同类型的老师,他是一个非常擅长分析的人。我第一次上他的私授课时,学到了很多关于手指和关节运用的知识。当我在巴黎音乐学院(Paris Conservatoire)的大师班课上,情形就不一样了。这儿有一名观众,而我觉得收获并不多。托尔特利耶就像一座火山,和他在一起工作很有激情。但是我所有的理解都来自于普列兹的基础——而另外两个只是展示了他们各自的特色。” 
Jacqueline met Daniel Barenboim at Christmas 1966, at the pianist Fou Ts'ong's house. 'We sat down and made music together — and from then on things developed very fast. We were married soon after the Arab-Israeli war — June 15th, 1967 — between old and new Jerusalem. The whole visit to Israel was a shattering experience, especially playing music to people whose husbands and sons were away fighting. One felt really needed and it was a privilege to help them in some way. We were carried along on a big, emotional wave for three extraordinary weeks.'
1966年,杰奎琳在钢琴家傅聪(Fou Ts'ong)的家里遇见了丹尼尔·巴伦博伊姆。“我们一起坐下来演奏音乐。从那时开始事情进展得很快,我们在1967年6月15日阿拉伯-以色列战争后不久就结婚了,在新旧耶路撒冷之间。整个以色列之行是个让人心碎的过程,特别是对着一群在战争中失去丈夫和儿子的人们演奏音乐。他们特别需要这样一种感觉,就是有一种特权可以在某种程度上帮助他们。我们背负着一种巨大的感情冲击度过了特别的三个星期。”
Her views on recording are now very 'pro' whereas they were once 'con'. 'At 17, it seemed to me the very opposite of what music-making was about but I've gradually grown to enjoy recording. I find I have to tone things down a bit for the mike. Then it can be very lonely in the studio. There, Suvi Grubb has been an enormous help — he's so musical and a real joy to work with. I like to record the whole of a work at once and then use that as a basis to improve on.'
她对于录音持“赞成”态度,而之前是“反对”的。“17岁时,我对“制作音乐”的意义存在完全不同的理解,但是我逐渐喜欢上了录音。我发现,在使用麦克风时我需要降低一点音调。而且在录音室里会感觉非常孤单,在那里,吉格拉布(Suvi Raj Grubb),在20世纪中期为EMI工作的印度南部的唱片制作人)给了我很大的帮助。他富有乐感,和他在一起工作很开心。我喜欢马上录完整部作品然后在此基础上进行改进。”
She has recorded the Schumann Concerto with her husband conducting and more recently the Beethoven and Brahms sonatas with him as pianist. 'We're so lucky that we play so well together as musicians. It's not always that a husband and wife get on well together on the platform and off it.'
杰奎琳已经录完了由她的丈夫指挥的舒曼协奏曲,最近又开始录制了贝多芬和勃拉姆斯的奏鸣曲,由她丈夫担任钢琴演奏。“我们很幸运,我们作为音乐家一起演奏得很好,但是一个妻子和丈夫在台上与台下并不总是能相处得很好。”
She is full of admiration for his organizational powers. 'He has arranged our itinerary so that we spend nearly all our time together. Sometimes we are parted for two days, seldom for more. Then he knows exactly how to manage his own career, spacing all his engagements properly so that he doesn't get over-worked. Of course, I think he's a wonderful conductor and orchestras seem to like him too'.
她很佩服他的统筹安排能力。“他会安排好我们的预定行程,这样我们几乎所有的时间都在一起度过。有时候我们会开分两天,几乎不会超过两天。他知道如何精确的安排他的事务,恰当地支配会面等事宜,这样他就不会过度工作了。当然了,我认为他是一位非常棒的指挥家,而且管弦乐队的成员似乎也很喜欢他。” 
Jacqueline is very eager to expand her repertory and is delighted that Alexander Goehr, for instance, has written such a grateful work — his Romanze — for the instrument, but she doesn't like playing works that are unsympathetic to her — and these include Shostakovich's First Cello Concerto. She admits that she is slow to appreciate most modern music — 'Bartók is really about as far as I go'. In consequence, as the cello solo repertory is comparatively small, she is turning more and more to chamber music. 'And for this we are lucky to have such a wonderful group of friends and this was the basis for our Summer Music on the South Bank.'
杰奎琳非常渴望扩展的她的保留曲目库,比如说,她很高兴亚历山大·戈尔(Alexander Goehr)为某个乐器谱写了一部伟大的作品——他的浪漫曲。但是她不喜欢演奏对她来说没有感情的作品。—包括肖斯塔科维奇(Shostakovich)的“第一大提琴协奏曲”,她承认她对大多数的当代音乐很难欣赏起来。——“巴托克('Bartók,匈牙利作曲家)音乐对我而言就是如此”。由于大提琴独奏曲目相对较少,因此她越来越多地转向室内乐。“很幸运的,我们拥有一群很不错的队友,这是我们在伦敦南岸(South Bank)举行夏季音乐会的基础。”
She is no believer in excessive practice, and prefers to leave the cello altogether during the days between concerts. 'That makes the rest beneficial and you come back all the fresher for the next concert. You must have spontaneity and too much study destroys that.'
她不热衷于过度练琴,她宁愿在没有音乐会的日子里离开大提琴。“这样的空隙很有益处,它会让你在下一场音乐会上重新充满活力。你必须有自发性,而过度的练习会破坏这个。” 
When she undertakes a work new,to her, she says she 'charges at it and sends everything flying. I like to make a big impact and not tackle it at first bar by bar. Then I come down to the ground and look at it more carefully, or perhaps you could say that out of the chaos I put the bits together again.'
当她着手进行一项新的任务时,她就会放飞一切全身心地投入。我喜欢一开始就获得一个事物总体上的印象,而不是从细枝末节开始一条一条地处理。当我回到地面时,我会更仔细地审查,也可以这么说我从一片混乱中把这些碎片又拼起来了。 
Off the platform, she likes films — 'nothing too tragic' — and looking at paintings. 'I used to paint myself but I've hidden my attempts bashfully away'. Then she has suddenly discovered she loves cooking. 'Sometimes when Danny wants me to run through a piece, I now say "no, I want to cook".'
演出之外,她喜欢电影— 《没什么可悲惨的》('nothing too tragic')—也喜欢看油画。“我曾经给自己画画,但我已经很羞怯地隐藏了我的企图。”然后呢,她突然发现自己喜欢烹饪。“有时候,丹尼尔想让我去翻阅一部音乐作品,我说:’不,我想去煮点儿东西。’” 
Although she would like to have several children, she could never stop playing for any length of time. 'I could never live without it'.
尽管她想要几个孩子,但是她的生命中不能停止演奏,“没有它我活不下去”。
音乐编译组公众号往期推送:1、八十岁时论阿劳丨论阿劳的演奏艺术;2、八十五岁论阿劳丨他的演奏何以伟大?3、钢琴家特里福诺夫专访丨“我在游泳池里练琴”;4、十五问王羽佳丨“演出”对你意味着什么?5、王羽佳访谈丨“穿长裙?待我四十岁!”6、王羽佳专访丨她赢得了没有参加的“比赛”!7、采访阿格里奇丨“音乐必须是自然流露的事情!” 8、帕尔曼追忆海菲兹丨“这么多小提琴家都试图模仿他,但他们的演奏却成了活生生的讽刺。”;9、肖邦大赛访傅聪丨“这个比赛没有完美的玛祖卡。” 10、韩国钢琴家赵成珍访谈丨“如果我遇见肖邦……”;11、憨豆先生采访郎朗丨谈肖邦以及古典音乐普及;12、古稀之年克莱默访谈丨谈《克莱默版贝多芬协奏曲》(亨勒出版社);13、“奥伊斯特拉赫经常鼓励我,去寻找属于自己的声音”丨“当代怪杰”吉顿·克莱默访谈;14、“指挥家”李云迪访谈丨“音乐源自内心,这就是为什么即便我们一遍遍地弹奏相同的曲子,表演依然不是机械化的原因。” 15、郎朗弟子马克西姆·朗多访谈丨“郎朗对所有事物的热情深深感染着我,当我们在一起演奏时,可以感受到创造出的音乐竟然如此欢乐!” 16、肖邦“迷妹”阿格里奇论肖邦《第一钢琴协奏曲》丨“我多么渴望去亲眼看到肖邦怎样弹琴!”;17、纽爱新总监梵志登访谈丨“我并不想被公众看作对某位作曲家有特殊癖好,演的最多或最为喜欢。” 18、埃格纳钢琴三重奏访谈丨你有父亲、母亲和孩子,等我们长大了,孩子就会成为父亲和母亲,这就是室内乐想要阐明的观点!19、华裔小提琴家侯以嘉访谈丨“没有技巧就没有表达的自由;但只关注技术,很快会变得无聊或疲劳,并失去练习专注度。”
20、郎朗访谈丨“有时候父亲把我逼得太紧了,可他是爱我的!” 21、哈农库特访谈丨“我所探寻的始终是作曲家为什么要这样写”;22、面对批评,郎朗很委屈丨“我想让古典音乐表现得酷炫一点,这有什么不好么?”;23、“准备好了”丨回忆海菲兹小提琴大师班;24、美酒,女人和钢琴丨钢琴家鲁宾斯坦的三原色;25、纪念李帕蒂丨他坚称乐谱是“我们的圣经”,但对作品内在精神的解读更重要!26、周善祥访谈丨不想当钢琴家的作曲家不是好数学家;27、席夫丨为何我的《哥德堡变奏曲》宛如与魔鬼跳舞?28、卡萨尔斯论演奏丨“我们必须学会不要每个音符都完全照搬谱子上写的拉。” 29、钢琴家李斯蒂莎访谈丨我为何“在YouTube创建自己的频道”?30、席夫访谈丨“我们必须努力向公众解释如何聆听美妙的音乐。” 31、托斯卡尼尼与川普丨作为权力工具的古典音乐;32、论托斯卡尼尼丨热爱自由并勇于行动;33、布伦德尔谈周善祥丨“你可以雇一个登山向导来教一个小孩儿怎么走路。” 34、指挥家圣克莱尔论布鲁克纳《第八交响曲》丨“他并不浪漫,你在他的音乐中并不能得到像柴科夫斯基或者马勒交响曲中所得到的感受。” 35、“音乐绝对不是知识”丨钢琴家白建宇访谈;36、鲁宾斯坦访谈丨“我告诉家人,如果我坚持钢琴事业太久就开枪打死我。” 37、罗斯特罗波维奇访谈(上)丨“在我演奏时,我不是在听大提琴的声音,而是在听一个管弦乐团。” 38、罗斯特罗波维奇访谈(下)丨“我从50年代开始指挥,这大大拓宽了我塑造音乐的视野。” 39、巴伦博伊姆访谈丨“柏林墙倒塌以来,世界一直处于缺乏领导的困境中。” 40、郑京和的回归丨“当我在舞台上时,上帝与我同在!”
41、巴伦博伊姆遇见阿格里奇丨“当音乐家们沉浸在自己的音乐世界中时,他们的表情传递出自然和精神力量。” 42、爸爸巴赫到底有多少小崽子? 43、我问郑京和,经历了这么多事情,重新站上舞台是什么感觉?44、基辛访谈丨“我们钢琴家非常幸运:钢琴曲目如此之多,我只希望活得足够长,能学到我想演奏的一切。” 45、他差点成为“古尔德”丨阿劳与巴赫的故事;46、基辛访谈丨“我们钢琴家非常幸运:钢琴曲目如此之多,我只希望活得足够长,能学到我想演奏的一切。” 47、他是钢琴家,却说自己“的目标是尽量少练习”丨迪巴格访谈;48、“我们要从象牙塔中取出音乐”丨巴伦博伊姆访谈;49、“我不想听伊莎贝拉·福斯特以外任何人演奏的协奏曲。” 50、“我不是唯一戴眼镜的钢琴家”丨迪巴格访谈;51、休伊特访谈丨“你花时间学习巴赫,他必然回报你很多”;52、休伊特访谈丨“要成为优秀的巴赫演奏者,也一定是一位学者。” 53、对话休伊特丨“每只手的每一根手指都可以通过巴赫的音乐的训练而变得有力。” 54、对话休伊特丨“我很幸运,通过做一些能给我和很多人带来乐趣的事情谋生。” 55、男高音阿兰尼亚专访(上)丨“我正在寻求的声音极其简单。” 56、一位世界级男高音的互联网思维丨阿兰尼亚专访(下);57、钢琴家波利尼丨“我永远不选音乐之外的另一种生活!”;58、巴伦博伊姆访谈丨“我相信有很多以色列人梦想有一天醒来,发现巴勒斯坦人不见了。”
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