采访阿格里奇丨“音乐必须是自然流露的事情！”

1965年阿格里奇肖邦大赛演奏片段

阿格里奇访谈

钢琴家访谈系列编译之一

Jill、董杰译，谷宇飞校；保留英文原文以方便指正

原文：The interview took place on February 16, 2000 in the dressing room after the performance of the Beethoven 2nd Concerto, with Claudio Abbado and the Mahler Chamber Orchestra in Ferrara, Italy, at the Teatro Comunale.

译文：我们的采访是在2000年2月16日意大利费拉拉公众剧院的更衣室中进行的。克劳迪奥•阿巴多作为指挥，马勒室内管弦乐团演奏的《贝多芬第二协奏曲》刚刚结束。

开场白

R. "Good evening Mrs Argerich, we're Radiotre, live.

We're broadcasting the concert."

A. "Is it the radio?"

R. "Yes, it's the radio....first of all, great compliments！It was a marvelous performance!"

——采访者：晚上好，阿格里奇女士，我们是电台的，现场直播。我们正在直播音乐会。

——阿格里奇：是电台广播的形式吗？

——是的，这是电台直播。首先要祝贺您，超赞！这真是一场非凡的音乐会！

A. "I feel nervous, I don't know why....but I feel very odd.I've just come from Japan and had the flu.I don't know, but I felt so nervous."

R. "At the end of the first movement I saw you look at Abbado, I don't know, what did you ask him?"

A. "Whether I had played well ... he answered: "No! Pugh!" Just so! That is all!" ( laughing )

——我感觉很紧张，我也不知道为什么......但是感觉很奇怪。刚从日本回来，还感冒了。不知道为什么这么紧张。

——第一乐章的结尾您看了阿巴多一眼，您问了他什么？

——我问他我弹的是不是特别好，他说：‘才没有！呸！’就这样，就这些！（大笑）

阿巴多指挥贝多芬《第五交响曲“命运”》

关于古尔达

R. "Ms Argerich, you and Abbado dedicated this concert to Gulda. Why?"

A. (becoming serious) "He was our teacher. In Vienna, Salzburg ... I knew Claudio during a piano masterclass of Friedrich Gulda in Salzburg, when he was young, and so was I ... Friedrich Gulda died last January 27 ... He was very important for me."

——R.“阿格里奇女士，为何说这场音乐会是您和阿巴多给古尔达的献礼？“

——A.（变得严肃起来）他是我们的老师。在维也纳和萨尔茨堡......古尔达在萨尔茨堡有一个钢琴大师班，我在那里认识了克劳迪奥，那时他还很年轻，我也是。弗里德里希•古尔达在去年1月27日去世了。他是一个对我很重要的人。

R. "Did you speak to him in the last few years?"

A. "Sometimes, yes. Not a lot, but a little, yes."

R: "Tell us the truth, after being one of his pupils, now, as colleague, as pianist, what do you think about his activity during this last part of his career, when he devoted himself to Jazz?"

——最近几年您和他有过交流么？

——有时候会，不是很多。

——实话跟我们说，之前是作为他的学生，现在作为同行和钢琴家，您怎么评价他的演出，特别是他艺术生涯后期专注于爵士乐后。

A. "Yes, I know he recently played in Turin, etc. I don't know exactly what he did ... but I admire him so much, always. He wanted to be free when he played the piano.If he played what people wanted, such as Mozart,Beethoven, Schubert, he was loved by them! But they didn't like his mixture of things or what he really wanted to do, no? ... It was difficult ... how can I say ... a difficult course, I think."

——我知道他最近在都灵演奏，但我不知道他具体做了什么工作……但我一直都很钦佩他，一直都是。他想在弹钢琴的时候得到自由。如果他演奏人们想要的音乐，例如莫扎特，贝多芬，舒伯特，他们都喜欢他！但是他们不喜欢他的音乐混合融入其他元素，也不喜欢听他真正想要去创作的音乐。很困难……我不知道该怎么形容——（让听众慢慢适应和接受）是一个艰难的过程。“

R: "Yes, but did you like this side of Gulda?"

A. "Yes, I did. You could feel his spontaneity, curiosity, and a love for music -- for all music, not only for classical music.He liked all music, he said, "All musicians are my friends" -- musicians of Flamenco, of Jazz, Rock ... he loved Arabian music a lot too. He was a such an open-minded person, so vital in this sense ... I find it wonderful."

——那你喜欢这一面的古尔达吗？

——是的，我喜欢。从他的另一面里你能感觉到创造力、好奇心和对音乐的热爱——对所有音乐的热爱，不只是对古典音乐的热爱，他对所有的音乐都有着发自内心的兴趣，他说，“所有的音乐家都是我的朋友”。弗拉门戈的音乐家，爵士，摇滚乐的音乐家……还有阿拉伯音乐。他是一个非常开放的人，至关重要的是，他对音乐的态度是开明的、毫无偏见的，这也是我最欣赏的一点。

R. "Yes, and this is the beauty of music. But you show this attitude as well, above all during your duo-recitals with Nelson Freire."

A. "Maybe, I don't know ... but we're more conventional. He was not very conventional ... he was a genius in this sense.

——是的，这就是音乐的美妙之处，尤其是在你和尼尔森·弗雷尔合作演出二重奏时你也展示了同样的态度。“

——“或许吧，我也不能确定。但是我们是更偏向传统的。他不是非常地传统，在这方面来说他是个天才。

古尔达演奏贝多芬《第五钢琴协奏曲“皇帝”》

R. "Don't you sometimes feel like doing something unconventional?"

A. "Yes, but not on purpose -- it must be natural, don't you think?" ( laughing )

R. "Yes, of course ... well, how do you judge the young musicians of this Orchestra?"

A. "Oh, very good ... moreover, Abbado is a wonder because he [she does a sonorous kiss for Abbado over the airwaves here] feels how everything must be done ... he helps me a lot."

——你难道没有想过去做一些打破传统的事情？

——“有想过，但不是刻意而为之——音乐必须是率性而为自然流露的事情，不是吗？”（笑）

——“是的，当然是这样的…你对乐队里年轻的音乐家们有怎样的评价？

——“非常好，特别是阿巴多（她在这里冲阿巴多做了一个响亮的飞吻），他给了我很大的帮助，他知道什么事情一定要去做以及如何去做，真的非常棒”

关于20世纪女钢琴家

R. "Recently, I read a point you made about the carelessness toward women pianists of this 20th century."

A. "Yes, Annie Fisher for example. There has been a CD set released with the great pianists of this century: Ms. Fischer was an extraordinary pianist but she doesn't appear. Another example is Mrs. Maria Tipo, for me she's sensational ... Today, she doesn't play any longer. There are many pianists very interesting today too ... there are Pires, Zilberstein, Anna Kravtchenko whom I don't know personally, but I know she's formidable."

——“最近，我读到你提到的一个观点，即关于对20世纪的女钢琴家才能和价值缺乏足够重视的问题。”

——答：“是的，安妮·费舍尔就是一个例子。近期有一张本世纪最杰出钢琴家的唱片，但是很多优秀、出色的女钢琴家都没有出现在这张唱片中。费舍小姐是一位非凡的钢琴家，还有玛利亚·蒂博小姐。此外，..还有皮尔斯、齐博斯坦、安娜·克拉夫特琴科——虽然我并不认识，但是我知道她（克拉夫特琴科）非常出色。

尾声：被所有人拥抱

[ Note by Paolo: From Rome, a colleague of the reporter is asking, or rather, imploring him ( by earphone ) to hug Martha. But our reporter is very embarrassed. ]

（保罗注解：一位来自罗马的记者同事通过耳机请求他拥抱玛尔塔，但是他感到有些为难）

R. "Mrs Argerich, from Rome my colleagues are so moved by the concert you played ..."

A. (interrupting) "Why, why?"

R. "Because they liked it very much."

A. "Really?"

R. "Yes ... ehm ... and so they want me to hug you for them

... I don't know..."

A. (laughing) "If you are wanting to, OK ! . . . I'm feeling hugged by all of you! Thank you!"

R. "Thank you!"

——“阿格里奇夫人，我在罗马的同事们都被你刚才音乐会上演奏的音乐打动了。”

（她打断说）“为什么，为什么？”

R. “因为他们非常喜欢您的音乐。”

答：“真的？”

R.R.“是的……所以他们希望我能替他们拥抱您一下）

我不知道（是否能获此殊荣）……”

——（大笑）“如果你不介意的话，当然可以！... 我感觉被你们所有人拥抱了！谢谢你们！”

——R. “谢谢！”

（向上滑动启阅）

采访原文：

The interview took place on February 16, 2000 in the dressing room after the performance of the Beethoven 2nd Concerto, with Claudio Abbado and the Mahler Chamber Orchestra in Ferrara, Italy, at the Teatro Comunale.

R. "Good evening Mrs Argerich, we're Radiotre, live.

We're broadcasting the concert."

A. "Is it the radio?"

R. "Yes, it's the radio....first of all, great compliments！It was a marvelous performance!"

A. "I feel nervous, I don't know why....but I feel very odd.I've just come from Japan and had the flu.I don't know, but I felt so nervous."

R. "At the end of the first movement I saw you look at Abbado, I don't know, what did you ask him?"

A. "Whether I had played well ... he answered: "No! Pugh!" Just so! That is all!" ( laughing )

About Gulda

R. "Ms Argerich, you and Abbado dedicated this concert to Gulda. Why?"

R. "Did you speak to him in the last few years?"

A. "Sometimes, yes. Not a lot, but a little, yes."

R: "Tell us the truth, after being one of his pupils, now, as colleague, as pianist, what do you think about his activity during this last part of his career, when he devoted himself to Jazz?"

A. "Yes, I know he recently played in Turin, etc. I don't know exactly what he did ... but I admire him so much, always. He wanted to be free when he played the piano.If he played what people wanted, such as Mozart,Beethoven, Schubert, he was loved by them! But they didn't like his mixture of things or what he really wanted to do, no? ... It was difficult ... how can I say ... a difficult course, I think."

R: "Yes, but did you like this side of Gulda?"

A. "Yes, I did. You could feel his spontaneity, curiosity, and a love for music -- for all music, not only for classical music.He liked all music, he said, "All musicians are my friends" -- musicians of Flamenco, of Jazz, Rock ... he loved Arabian music a lot too. He was a such an open-minded person, so vital in this sense ... I find it wonderful."

R. "Yes, and this is the beauty of music. But you show this attitude as well, above all during your duo-recitals with Nelson Freire."

A. "Maybe, I don't know ... but we're more conventional. He was not very conventional ... he was a genius in this sense.

R. "Don't you sometimes feel like doing something unconventional?"

A. "Yes, but not on purpose -- it must be natural, don't you think?" ( laughing )

R. "Yes, of course ... well, how do you judge the young musicians of this Orchestra?"

A. "Oh, very good ... moreover, Abbado is a wonder because he [she does a sonorous kiss for Abbado over the airwaves here] feels how everything must be done ... he helps me a lot."

3 The women pianists of this 20th century

R. "Recently, I read a point you made about the carelessness toward women pianists of this 20th century."

A. "Yes, Annie Fisher for example. There has been a CD set released with the great pianists of this century: Ms. Fischer was an extraordinary pianist but she doesn't appear. Another example is Mrs. Maria Tipo, for me she's sensational ... Today, she doesn't play any longer. There are many pianists very interesting today too ... there are Pires, Zilberstein, Anna Kravtchenko whom I don't know personally, but I know she's formidable."

Ending:Be hugged by all of you

[ Note by Paolo: From Rome, a colleague of the reporter is asking, or rather, imploring him ( by earphone ) to hug Martha. But our reporter is very embarrassed. ]

R. "Mrs Argerich, from Rome my colleagues are so moved by the concert you played ..."

A. (interrupting) "Why, why?"

R. "Because they liked it very much."

A. "Really?"

R. "Yes ... ehm ... and so they want me to hug you for them

... I don't know..."

A. (laughing) "If you are wanting to, OK ! . . . I'm feeling hugged by all of you! Thank you!"

R. "Thank you!"

整理校对：谷宇飞

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